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Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

independent.co.uk

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Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#81

Post by sokoloff »

forgetsusername wrote: post #77
WalterBright wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have racing-style belts and no air bag. Racing style go over both shoulders, are wider, and are fixed length. There are some horrific crashes in auto racing and the drivers walk away. That convinces me.

I've often wondered how many lives would be saved if people wore helmets during daily driving. I'd bet a lot . Of course, good luck getting people to do it.

I would not be surprised if helmet usage increased serious accidents/injuries and fatalities. The peripheral vision (for crossing roads, rotaries, and spotting pedestrians) is vastly worse wearing a helmet, at least the SA full-face helmets I've worn in amateur motorsports.

Race tracks don't have most of those hazards, and control most of the pedestrian hazards, with the limited pedestrians on the hot side of the pit wall assuming much of the responsibility for their own safety.

This would be offset by a reduction in head injuries (with a possible increase in neck and spinal injuries). I think I'd bet a full study would show an overall decrease in safety.

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#82

Post by sokoloff »

pjc50 wrote: post #79
adaml_623 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. That's a way harder question :-) I guess it's all a trade off of material/weight vs performance. If you make a more rigid passenger compartment then it might weigh more and your car might be slower. Or maybe you have to spend more on a stronger type of steel that is more expensive. Or you have to make something more complicated to be safer. So on average maybe the US cars come down on the lighter/cheaper/faste…

The US fleet tends to be heavier on average, surely? More SUVs/light trucks, larger vehicles in general.

Which means that your opposing/counterpart vehicle in the accident is also heavier.

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#83

Post by sokoloff »

rplst8 wrote: post #56
bruceboughton wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also know of instances where Boeing produced safer designs and had to lobby the FAA to get them to accept them. One example is using twin engines on overwater flights, rather than 3 or 4. The twin engines are statistically safer. Interesting. Why do you think it is that twin engines are statistically safer? I thought redundancy was a normal part of the safety toolkit for planes.

I think it's even true for single vs. twin engine planes. A lot of it has to do with - are the systems redundant, or are they both needed to properly fly the plane. Also whether the probability adds up in a serial or parallel fashion. I know a friend that pilots a single engine Cessna. Obviously one engine, but it also has no electronic ignition and four magnetos. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_magneto The en…

Minor point: it's two magnetos, each magneto driving a separate ignition harness and spark plug in each cylinder.

Each system is tested in the pre-flight by grounding out (shutting down) the left magneto and making sure the right magneto can run the engine and all those plugs are firing, then repeating the test with the right magneto grounded (shut down) and making sure the left mag, harness, and plugs are capable of running the engine.

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#84

Post by fluidcruft »

colomon wrote: post #75
mcv wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of amazing that air bags were apparently standard in the US before seat belts were. Seat belts are far older technology as far as I know.

I'm not sure exactly what the grandparent was trying to say, but seat belts became mandatory new car features in the US back in the 1960s. Airbags became mandatory new car features in the early 1990s. On the other hand, I believe seat belt usage was still under 50% in the early 1990s [1], when the airbag legislation was being written. (I was born in 1970, and the first time I remember wearing a seatbelt was the summe…

What I understood was that US regulations for airbags are intended for cars that have airbags only and no seat belts at all. And that those same requirements continue to be applied the airbags + seat belts vehicles we actually encounter.

(cynically, this seems entirely exactly like something Detroit would push for in order to disadvantage imports--so, although this sounds ridiculous, it rings as entirely admissible to me as "no duh" after reading that comment)

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#85

Post by scrumper »

petewailes wrote: post #6

At the risk of sounding cynical and jaded, is anyone remotely surprised by this? The EU has been pushing car encouraging manufacturers to work harder at car safety for longer, and more effectively than the US has. Seat belts? Volvo. Air bags? First made standard in Mercs and Porsches, at a time when Ford and GM were lobbying against being made to include them. They became optional and then standard between the mid to…

So does that mean if I buy a European car in the USA (a USA car, not a special import) the airbags will go off with more force?

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#86

Post by masklinn »

gambiting wrote: post #49
rplst8 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the HANS device was used in NASCAR, I witnessed some serious wrecks during auto-racing that drivers got out of the car under their own power and were fine. I wonder if the percentage of fatalities from wrecks in auto racing is better or worse that high speed accidents on public highways. It would be an interesting statistic to compare.

Nascar cars use roll cages, so as long as you are strapped into your seat safely you will survive most crashes, if the car doesn't catch fire. Most regular cars don't have roll cages.

> as long as you are strapped into your seat safely

That's the important part. Most of the safety devices in a nascar car (or any racing car really) only make sense if you're tightly strapped in the first place. So the first thing is seatbelt, always. Then you can add more stuff protecting the driver under the assumption that the driver's body will move with the car rather than independently within it.

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#87

Post by adventured »

happyscrappy wrote: post #55
rplst8 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd take more stringent safety standards over ridiculous emissions standards any day. Though, you could argue stricter safety standards fly in the face of emissions standards. More weight in the car, plus if the occupant survives, their carbon footprint is still there.

The cheating EU cars are emitting 40x the pollution which is why air quality in Europe sucks.

At least in some places it certainly does:

http://www.france24.com/en/20150320-paris-city-smog-pollutio...

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#88

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

mcv wrote: post #80
colomon wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure exactly what the grandparent was trying to say, but seat belts became mandatory new car features in the US back in the 1960s. Airbags became mandatory new car features in the early 1990s. On the other hand, I believe seat belt usage was still under 50% in the early 1990s [1], when the airbag legislation was being written. (I was born in 1970, and the first time I remember wearing a seatbelt was the summe…

When I was a kid, in the 1970s, our car didn't yet have seat belts in the back, but in the front, they were required. I think when they became required in the back, it also became required to use if you had them , which obviously older cars didn't. But having seat belts for decades and then not expecting people to use them, that's kinda silly.

I think "not expecting people to use them" is in accordance with actual facts, a substantial portion of drivers would flat-out refuse to wear seatbelts. (I feel as if this has changed in recent years, as those people age out, mellow, see reason, or die in car wrecks).

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#89

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

forgetsusername wrote: post #77
WalterBright wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather have racing-style belts and no air bag. Racing style go over both shoulders, are wider, and are fixed length. There are some horrific crashes in auto racing and the drivers walk away. That convinces me.

I've often wondered how many lives would be saved if people wore helmets during daily driving. I'd bet a lot . Of course, good luck getting people to do it.

You can't even get people to reliably wear helmets when riding a motorcycle.

Re: Car industry 'buried report revealing US car safety flaws over fears for TTIP'

#90

Post by chiph »

petewailes wrote: post #6

At the risk of sounding cynical and jaded, is anyone remotely surprised by this? The EU has been pushing car encouraging manufacturers to work harder at car safety for longer, and more effectively than the US has. Seat belts? Volvo. Air bags? First made standard in Mercs and Porsches, at a time when Ford and GM were lobbying against being made to include them. They became optional and then standard between the mid to…

> are designed to require an airbag to be able to stop an adult male not wearing a seatbelt

That's Joan Claybrook's fault. While she did champion many much-needed safety improvements, this and the 85-mph speedometer were not her best ideas.

For the inside story on this and other auto industry disasters, pick up a copy of Jason Vines' book:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Did-Jesus-Drive-Christianity-eboo...

*I asked him, "What the hell is a thermal event?" "Um," he paused, "The vehicle could catch on fire."

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