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The Importance of Donald Trump

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Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#81

Post by graycat »

In one word, the OP plays with the accusation that what Trump says isn't real. Okay, let's consider what in the OP is/is not real. Here I am not talking for/against abortion but about eighth grade civics on the SCOTUS and US Constitution:

"But the party’s real stand on the sanctity of female biology had been encapsulated in the debate by Walker’s and Marco Rubio’s endorsement of a ban on abortions for women who have been raped or risk dying in childbirth."

Real? That's about where I want to stop reading the OP.

Why? I know that for me eighth grade civics was a long time ago, but as I recall (1) the SCOTUS case of Roe v Wade that made abortion legal is now 40+ years old; (2) to change that decision need (A) a lot of what would be, say, unlikely new SCOTUS nominations or (B) a Constitutional amendment that would take 2/3rds of the House, 2/3rds of the Senate, and 3/4ths of the states. So, first-cut, intuitively, IMHO, for either (A) or (B), any way to have "a ban on abortions" is decades away. Considering how often we have Constitutional amendments, maybe centuries.

Real? Talking about "a ban on abortions" is real? I don't think so.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#82

Post by zimpenfish »

graycat wrote: post #81

In one word, the OP plays with the accusation that what Trump says isn't real . Okay, let's consider what in the OP is/is not real . Here I am not talking for/against abortion but about eighth grade civics on the SCOTUS and US Constitution: "But the party’s real stand on the sanctity of female biology had been encapsulated in the debate by Walker’s and Marco Rubio’s endorsement of a ban on abortions for women who hav…

> So, first-cut, intuitively, IMHO, for either (A) or (B), any way to have "a ban on abortions" is decades away.

Presumably, then, you'd expect any serious competent candidate to know this and not make statements suggesting that such a thing could happen?

(I'm in the UK, we have our own flavour of crazy.)

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#83

Post by hga »

brandonmenc wrote: post #36

> he’s exposing all its phoniness and corruption in ways as serious as he is not Trump will definitely make a full run at the Presidency if he believes he has a chance - and it appears he does. This guy wants to be the President. This is not a publicity stunt, if it ever was. Continuing to pretend he's a cartoon character will just make the hangover worse. Disclaimer: I am not a Trump supporter.

Reminds me of the disparagement of the Reagan as a "B-movie actor".

He was playing quite a "role" when he was the first president to try to end, rather than contain, the Soviet Union, and then achieved that.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#84

Post by hga »

graycat wrote: post #81

In one word, the OP plays with the accusation that what Trump says isn't real . Okay, let's consider what in the OP is/is not real . Here I am not talking for/against abortion but about eighth grade civics on the SCOTUS and US Constitution: "But the party’s real stand on the sanctity of female biology had been encapsulated in the debate by Walker’s and Marco Rubio’s endorsement of a ban on abortions for women who hav…

Uh, no, although I'll admit it wasn't taught in my 1085 9th grade civics class. The Founders profoundly distrusted the Supreme Court, and in Article III, Section 2, there is a provision that's been used more than a few times, including in the last few decades, to remove something from the Federal Court's remit:

In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction. In all the other Cases before mentioned, the supreme Court shall have appellate Jurisdiction, both as to Law and Fact, with such Exceptions, and under such Regulations as the Congress shall make.

ADDED: See this for extensive discussion of the practice of "jurisdiction_stripping": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisdiction_stripping

That national level Republicans have never tried in the abortion domain suggests to me how much they really care about the issue.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#85

Post by flycaliguy »

yk wrote: post #64

Dan Carlin proposed the theory that Trump understood that only trying to win the GOP primary is a winning strategy for the primary.[0] Basically the primary caucus is a lot more radical than the general electorate and normal candidates have to run on a just a little bit more conservative platform than the next leading candidate, while preparing to turn around as soon as they have secured the nomination. A candidate l…

Interesting theory. It's overtaking my currently conspiratorial feeling that he is a Jeb stooge who is hogging to spotlight from anyone who can't afford to fight a billionaire... only to putter out over the winter as everybody embraces the newly "pro-hispanic" Republican establishment.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#86

Post by graycat »

hga wrote: post #84
graycat wrote: post #81

In one word, the OP plays with the accusation that what Trump says isn't real . Okay, let's consider what in the OP is/is not real . Here I am not talking for/against abortion but about eighth grade civics on the SCOTUS and US Constitution: "But the party’s real stand on the sanctity of female biology had been encapsulated in the debate by Walker’s and Marco Rubio’s endorsement of a ban on abortions for women who hav…

Uh, no, although I'll admit it wasn't taught in my 1085 9th grade civics class. The Founders profoundly distrusted the Supreme Court, and in Article III, Section 2, there is a provision that's been used more than a few times, including in the last few decades, to remove something from the Federal Court's remit: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be…

Interesting quote.

I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, really, there is nothing Congress can do about a SCOTUS decision such as Roe v Wade just by passing a law and getting the POTUS to sign it. And should a US state pass a law against abortion, the legal system would instantly use Roe v Wade to strike down that state law.

If all that is so, then the only way to make abortion illegal is to reverse Roe v Wade, and there are only two ways to do that, (A) have another case brought to the SCOTUS and accepted for review by the SCOTUS and with enough new justices to reverse Roe v Wade and (B) have a Constitutional amendment with, as I mentioned, 2/3rds of the House, .... IMHO, the chances of either (A) or (B) within 100 years look slim to none.

If all that is correct, then talking about laws against abortion is some form of self-abuse or manipulation of others and less useful than a spit to windward.

Again, I'm just talking about process, not the pros/cons of abortion.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#87

Post by venomsnake »

lsc wrote: post #56
emp_zealoth wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is,you cant call rape a rape anymore, unless its drunk man having a sex with an equally drunk woman - then its PATRIARCHAL RAPE You cant even have a hard discussion without gagging one side. Its wrong. While republicans are pretty much cancer, the left seems growing incapable of dealing with reality,because it might offend someone

>While republicans are pretty much cancer, the left seems growing incapable of dealing with reality,because it might offend someone I'm the sort of person who thinks Nixon was a better president than JFK. The Republicans could field a decent president if they 1. recognized what a spectacular embarrassment and failure GWB was, and that we're not going to elect anyone who is remotely connected to him, and 2. quit letti…

>But that aside, yeah, I just don't see how asking you to use one word instead of another to describe a person or a group makes you gagged or incapable of dealing with reality.

Take PR 101. Never leave the other side in control of the narrative. If you play by left branding rules, you will lose.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#88

Post by hga »

graycat wrote: post #86
hga wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, no, although I'll admit it wasn't taught in my 1085 9th grade civics class. The Founders profoundly distrusted the Supreme Court, and in Article III, Section 2, there is a provision that's been used more than a few times, including in the last few decades, to remove something from the Federal Court's remit: In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be…

Interesting quote. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that, really, there is nothing Congress can do about a SCOTUS decision such as Roe v Wade just by passing a law and getting the POTUS to sign it. And should a US state pass a law against abortion, the legal system would instantly use Roe v Wade to strike down that state law. If all that is so, then the only way to make abortion illegal is to reverse Roe v W…

I apologize for not including this in my original posting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jurisdiction_stripping It is a well established practice, and note the contemporary uses in the '90s and '00s.

Re: The Importance of Donald Trump

#90

Post by xlm1717 »

flycaliguy wrote: post #85
yk wrote: post #64

Dan Carlin proposed the theory that Trump understood that only trying to win the GOP primary is a winning strategy for the primary.[0] Basically the primary caucus is a lot more radical than the general electorate and normal candidates have to run on a just a little bit more conservative platform than the next leading candidate, while preparing to turn around as soon as they have secured the nomination. A candidate l…

Interesting theory. It's overtaking my currently conspiratorial feeling that he is a Jeb stooge who is hogging to spotlight from anyone who can't afford to fight a billionaire... only to putter out over the winter as everybody embraces the newly "pro-hispanic" Republican establishment.

It's funny how everyone has a conspiracy theory on Trump. The right wants to believe he's employed by Clinton to split the Republican vote, and the left want to believe he's employed by the RNC to safely pander to the racist element of the Republican Party.

Jeb definitely looks "pro-Hispanic" compared with Trump. He even learned Spanish!

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