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Bernie Sanders' 404 page

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Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#81
post #39
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most manuals of style say that "Sanders's" is most correct, but will allow for "Sanders'". I strongly prefer the former. It's logical if you think of it: s' is always for plural nouns that end in S, 's is always for singular. "The cats' milk" vs "James's hand." This way also matches pronunciation. It gets tricky to keep straight when you have plural nouns that don't end in S. I know "Men's clothes" is correct. But I'…

Man, it's no wonder that people like me two aren't speaking English natively get confused about that whole *'s thing.

As a rule of thumb, if you attach "'s" to something ending with an "s", only attach the apostrophe. But there's no problem if you do it wrong, it's just a stylistic convention to reflect the phonetics.

And for plural "s": if the word normally ends in a "s" or "sh" or "z" sound (or possibly even "zh", i.e. the "j" in French "je") add an "es" instead of "s". Some words are irregular but irregular words by definition don't follow the rules.

The real confusion comes with possessive pronouns. It is "the boy's pet" but it is "his pet" (not #"he's pet"). They're not nouns (they're pro-nouns, i.e. something that is used instead of a noun) so the apostrophe-s rule doesn't apply to them, they just take on special forms.

The confusion really just stems from English regularly allowing contractions like "-'s"/"-'" for "is" and "-n't"/"-'t" for "not" or "-'d" for "would". Pronouns can have contractions as suffixes (e.g. "he's" for "he is" or "he'd" for "he would") but nouns normally can't (#"the boy'd" isn't normally permissible, at least not in writing).

It gets even worse if you consider that whether words can only be contracted additionally depends on their pronunciation (and role) within the sentence. You can't answer the question "Is he dead?" with #"He's.", for example.

Oh, and I haven't even touched upon similar-sounding but entirely different things like "their" vs "they're" -- and I even caught myself accidentally mixing them up while writing this comment.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#82
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most manuals of style say that "Sanders's" is most correct, but will allow for "Sanders'". I strongly prefer the former. It's logical if you think of it: s' is always for plural nouns that end in S, 's is always for singular. "The cats' milk" vs "James's hand." This way also matches pronunciation. It gets tricky to keep straight when you have plural nouns that don't end in S. I know "Men's clothes" is correct. But I'…

ITs not cut-and-dried. E.g. its vs it's is unsolvable - both should have the apostrophe but ambiguity.

Mmh, not really. "Its" is consistent with other possessive pronouns like "his" and "hers". "It's" is consistent with other contractions, where letters are removed ("it is" or "it has").

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#83
post #16

Isn't it Bernie Sanders', not *Bernie Sander's? (Edit: or Sanders's, indeed. That's what I'd usually write.)

Most manuals of style say that "Sanders's" is most correct, but will allow for "Sanders'". I strongly prefer the former. It's logical if you think of it: s' is always for plural nouns that end in S, 's is always for singular. "The cats' milk" vs "James's hand." This way also matches pronunciation. It gets tricky to keep straight when you have plural nouns that don't end in S. I know "Men's clothes" is correct. But I'…

I was in Sears (where America used to shop) and saw "Mens clothes".

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#84
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard because the plural form of "fish" is usually "fish." I think we allow "fishes" when "fish" is ambiguous, like my example. Maybe we should just change to "fishes" all the time :)

Deep in the weeds here, but the plural of a single species of fish is 'fish', while multiple species of fish are 'fishes'. 'Swimming with the fishes' means you must have wound up on the wrong side of a boat in a diverse body of water. It would be a shame to have to 'swim with the fish'. So ambiguous.

Learn something new every day :)

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's an interesting candidate. From what I've seen he's not your typical politician, and he seems to mesh well with the current twentysomething crowd despite being from the tail end of the "Greatest Generation" himself. I don't know how much of a chance he has to win the presidency, but I can say that I like him much, much better than any other candidate (and I'm not a political kind of guy).

Are you comfortable with a socialist leading a capitalist society? I sure am not.

This kind of weaselly divisiveness is exactly why I don't get political. There is no answer to your question that can't be twisted into calling me a socialist/Marxist/communist/Nazi/pinhead just because I happen to like a certain candidate who does things differently than the usual Clinton/Trump types.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#86

I don't follow politics at all, but the more I read and hear about Bernie Sanders the more I like him. I'm sure we've got a few political experts on Hacker News so I'd love to hear if you guys think he actually has any chance of winning the presidency.

He doesn't. Not even most of the Democratic base will vote for a white male socialist in his 70's over Hillary, and he has no chance of winning the general election even if he were nominated. Even he probably knows this and is only running to make a statement.

> He has no chance of winning the general election even if he were nominated.

Well, that depends who he is up against. Imagine Sanders vs. Cruz with Trump as a 3rd party candidate...

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#87

Isn't it Bernie Sanders', not *Bernie Sander's? (Edit: or Sanders's, indeed. That's what I'd usually write.)

Most styles render this as Bernie Sanders’s. In some circles this rendering (Bernie Sanders’) is correct. Reasonable people disagree: http://www.dailywritingtips.com/possessive-of-proper-names-e... but those are the only two correct versions.

The way I always understood it is that originally the s's (Sanders's dog) style was considered correct, and that the s' (Sanders' dog) style was a shorthand version for informal writing (so in formal writing it would be "sanders's dog" and in letters to a friend it might be "sanders' dog").

But as with all things, informal writing was more popular than formal writing, and eventually the s' style grew in such popularity that it became valid and understood in its own right.

So now effectively we have two "correct" ways of representing the same thing, a "long form" version and a "short form" version. The way I was always taught it (in a stuffy English secondary school) was that consistency within a single text is the most important thing, if you write s's once, you have to use it everywhere else also (ex. quotes).

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#88
post #44

Most 404 accesses are from people probing a server for common URL's belonging to vulnerable web applications. Thus my 404 page is a honeypot, and too many 404 accesses in a short period results in an automatic IP ban.

Just be sure it's not an ip that many legit users are passing through ... Like in the days when dial up aol users would all pass through the same IP.

All dial-up users being on the same IP would be tremendously convenient on the SMTP defense front, on the other hand.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#89
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not even most of the Democratic base will vote for a white male socialist in his 70's over Hillary Why do you say that? I could perhaps be convinced, but at this point I don't see any reason to think that.

Thinking back to the 2012 election, the sentiment of reducing government/cutting taxes in this country is palpably strong. The word "socialist" itself gradually became established as an anti-american insult. Republicans worked hard to place this label on obama as an affront to american freedom reminiscent of communism. Bernie Sanders is a self-described socialist. His ideals dont align with the prevailing american va…

> His ideals dont align with the prevailing american values.

That's not exactly true. I recall an article in the Washington Post explaining that his propositions are actually supported by majority of Americans. Sanders is not a real socialist, he's just a New Deal Democrat.

Re: Bernie Sanders' 404 page

#90
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The fish's pond"? "The fishes' pond"? That's a pond belonging to a single fish ("The fish's pond") versus one belonging to multiple fish ("The fishes' pond"). You're completely right!

It's hard because the plural form of "fish" is usually "fish." I think we allow "fishes" when "fish" is ambiguous, like my example. Maybe we should just change to "fishes" all the time :)

"Fishes" is the word used to describe different species of fish.

Edit: late for the party. "Deeres" and "sheepes" follow the same pattern, I presume.

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