Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#81

Post by sbraford » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 4:17 AM UTC

mrtron wrote: post #52

run4yourlives wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever operated a website with over a hundred pages? Just curious. And as far as hours wasted, having coded both ways, and originally viewing css as stupid and more work, I can now code a website in half the time using it than tables. In fact, when I'm just hacking something quick, it's great not to bother with any layout at all and just come back to it when I have the time. You can't do that with tables.

I was a lead developer on a massive website... If you are a programmer on a large site you won't touch the design. It will be done by a skilled designer, or designing firm. You won't care how its done whatsoever. There is a lot more to say here...but basically you won't touch the design. Or want to. Or care how its done :)

Boy, would I love to never have to think of XHTML/CSS.

The reality has always been quite different.

At least churning out valid XHTML+CSS from Photoshop designs has now become a commodity business: http://onwebapps.com/39-photoshop-psd-to-xhtml-css-services/

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#82

Post by sbraford » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 4:19 AM UTC

rugoso wrote: post #18

LOL, this is always one o my favorite insults, "he uses tables in his html"

along with "i heard he produces invalid markup" (cue beavis & butthead laugh)

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#83

Post by henryw » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 5:44 AM UTC

with the value added to us readers, i think we can overlook this issue and get back to coding. would you yell at your girlfriend for cooking you a nice dinner and putting the fork on the wrong side of the plate?

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#84

Post by mberning » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 5:49 AM UTC

What you can do is what matters most. Something works or it doesn't. How you do it is purely subjective.

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#85

Post by tzury » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 6:53 AM UTC

getting-things-right-vs-getting-things-done http://evalinux.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/getting-things-righ...

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#86

Post by Nicolay77 » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 12:59 PM UTC

euccastro wrote: post #79

palish wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use your HTML/CSS as object code, this is easy enough to abstract in your generating code. Bingo! And that's one reason Arc is pretty exciting. I'll be able to do the equivalent of center: horizontal, and the details can be abstracted.

What makes you think Arc will improve on other Lisps in this respect?

Hype.

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#87

Post by mroman » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 2:51 PM UTC

german wrote: post #7

brett wrote: post #3

PG might tell you it's because html is object code: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50159 But then you'll note that his code is full of tab , tr , and td macros so it's not like html tables are completely abstracted out. So a better answer might be that he puts a premium on quickly getting things out that work and ignoring details that the user never knows about; I'm guessing you didn't know the page was table ba…

You're right, I realized that the page was table based by looking at the source. Programmers love to read beautiful code, As a web designer, I love to read beautiful and meaningful HTML. ;)

Well, if you "love to read beautiful and meaningful HTML" why does your site http://prezentit.com/ have HTML errors?

First one is on line 34. An end tag isn't finished . . . there are several more, and I am not even a web designer.

That's a lot of nerve, criticizing the work of others, while not getting your own done right.

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#88

Post by german » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 3:49 PM UTC

mroman wrote: post #87

german wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, I realized that the page was table based by looking at the source. Programmers love to read beautiful code, As a web designer, I love to read beautiful and meaningful HTML. ;)

Well, if you "love to read beautiful and meaningful HTML" why does your site http://prezentit.com/ have HTML errors? First one is on line 34. An end tag isn't finished . . . there are several more, and I am not even a web designer. That's a lot of nerve, criticizing the work of others, while not getting your own done right.

NO it has not HTML errors, it has done that way to achieve the desired result, take a look at the source code if you like, don't rely just in the W3C validator.

If you find any error, let me know and I'll fix it. Thanks.

On the other hand I'm not criticizing any HTML errors, I'm just saying that for this case a list suits better than tables.

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#89

Post by ayc » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 4:42 PM UTC

palish wrote: post #37

ayc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is. Table is 'not optimized object code' compared to lists. So you should ask: why your object code is not optimized (and it slow loaded and slow rendered on my PC :).

Premature optimization is literally a waste of life.

Do not waste a life! You should use optimizing compiler ;)

Re: Ask YC: Why is YC's layout table based?

#90

Post by ayc » Sat, Jan 19, 2008, 4:44 PM UTC

emmett wrote: post #8

ayc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is. Table is 'not optimized object code' compared to lists. So you should ask: why your object code is not optimized (and it slow loaded and slow rendered on my PC :).

How old is your computer? I've found news.yc load times are close to instant.

My computer is fast :) I told "YOU should ask: why your object code is not optimized (and it slow" (instead of "why you use tables").