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Where did all the public bathrooms go?

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Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#791

Post by ackfoobar »

amilios wrote: post #714
xyzelement wrote: post #85

Lack of bathrooms has been called tragedy of the commons in this thread, but it's not the "commons" that are the problem. The worst 10% of society determine what we can and can't have. The "commons" aren't having public sex, shooting up drugs, or destroying the bathrooms with lack of... etiquette. The commons are victimized when these things happen and then there's eventually no choice but to shut them down unless th…

make people pay and this problem is solved. it blows my mind that there is an obvious solution here that we simply refuse to touch because... principle?

This might be the your missing puzzle piece:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_to_End_Pay_Toilets_i...

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#792

Post by LoganDark »

mmooss wrote: post #784
LoganDark wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, destroying public utilities is antisocial. Antisocial behavior is a huge problem in the US.

> Antisocial behavior is a huge problem in the US. You'll have to back that up. It's said a lot by people who want to take away freedom from those they dislike, trying to justify it by creating some state of emergency. Crime is the lowest it's been in the lifetime of most Americans. I do see high antisocial behavior among wealthy, powerful people - should we jail them? They cause a lot more harm than dirty bathrooms.

I kind of never said the problem is too much freedom, in fact I think the problem is unrelenting abuse and neglect rather than lack of control. But I don't have sources on me, I'll try to remember to explain more later.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#793

Post by db48x »

vkou wrote: post #497
db48x wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spending less money more efficiently would not make the problem worse.

But currently housed people becoming street homeless would. Unless you mean to say that you don't care either way if they do. (If your value system places zero value on that, then my value system places positive value on spending your money on things you very explicitly don't value.)

This argument is so dumb. SF spends so profligately that a well–run system could spend less money and be just as effective, if not more effective. Nobody would be turned out onto the street just because less money was being spent. Half of that money is probably going to fraudsters who are bilking the government. A lot of it is probably being spent in useless ways that ensure that more money will be spent on the problem in the future, to keep the cash spigot running to the NGOs that profit from the homeless.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#794

Post by JuniperMesos »

lux-lux-lux wrote: post #761
hansvm wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per dollar recovered or per future fare-jumped dollar prevented? Edit: This plays into something I observe in most "data-driven" organizations. Having a statistic available about recovery costs makes it easy to shift the conversation toward that statistic, when you actually ought to be asking questions about (in this case) the causal impact of that intervention on the subway's overall profitability, the need for easi…

Per dollar recovered. Paying law enforcement officers overtime and directing police attention away from more significant criminal behavior (as opposed to redesigning turnstiles or pursuing alternative strategies like no-fare systems) is extremely expensive and time-limited in terms of impact. It does shovel a lot of dollars at law enforcement and let the Adams administration pretend to be tough on crime despite engag…

The sorts of people who turnstile jump are likely to commit further crimes on the public transit system that more directly affect the ordinary people trying to use it legitimately. For this reason I specifically want the police to prioritize arresting and prosecuting turnstile jumpers - it concretely improves the experience of public transit for everyone.

This is the same reason that getting rid of fare-checking is bad - the sorts of people who are kept off the transit system by enforcing a fare, are not people you want to be in an enclosed space with.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#796

Post by SirMaster »

charcircuit wrote: post #769
NalNezumi wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU(or US) can't have public toilets because it's gonna get vandalized. For fun. One thing that perplexed me endlessly during my youth living in Sweden was seeing drunk teenagers go around vandalize things for... Fun. Breaking the glass at the buss station (designed to shatter in to million pieces so you don't hurt yourself), friends enjoying graffiti, littering, throwing beer bottles on the street for fun.... During…

The US has public toilets.

Yeah I don't get this, there are plentiful public toilets all over the US.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#797

Post by xp84 »

lux-lux-lux wrote: post #763
xp84 wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitulating to the antisocial persons by just giving up just sends a message to others that this behavior is acceptable. It moves the Overton window. Someone who used to think turnstile hopping was the kind of thing only crooks and low-lifes do sees people doing it more and more, witnesses and hears about how there are no consequences, and can't help but reframe it as more like driving 70 in a 65mph zone -- a harmle…

I much prefer targeting more pressing antisocial behaviors while not excessively wasting public funds, something the Mamdani administration has been doing quite efficiently e.g. with the pied-à-terre tax. You seem angry about that, for some reason.

Nah, I'm not really angry because I don't live in New York so it's not my problem. But no, I don't respect a politician who is demonstrably economically illiterate.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#798

Post by doc_ick »

prmph wrote: post #166
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst toilet I ever saw was in China, but at 5000 meters in Sichuan, it was two slippery two by fours that you had to straddle on over a big open pit (don't slip or lose balance!). That was such an awesome trip circa 2005.

Well the worst one I ever saw was in New York City, of all places.

All of the public bathrooms I’ve been to in NYC were decent, the worst I saw was in Florida. Barely hanging together.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#799

Post by nailer »

gjm11 wrote: post #612
nailer wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > I'm actually in the UK > I think bottom quintile refers to the worst people not necessarily the poor or whatever. Yes. In the UK the rate of incest is increasing due to migration from Middle East, North Africa, and Pakistan. An NHS Genomics Education Programme blog in Sept 2025 acknowledged the risk of birth defects doubling, but cited the benefits of 'stronger family support', 'economic advantages' and argued ag…

Here is the actual thing they published (and unpublished shortly after, after backlash stoked by the right-wing press): https://web.archive.org/web/20250929053102/https://www.genom... Readers may judge for themselves how accurate the description above is. A few further remarks. --1-- Many many many things that are unwise and can increase pressure on communities' resources are not illegal . You have the right to try t…

> https://web.archive.org/web/20250929053102/https://www.genom... Readers may judge for themselves how accurate the description above is.

Thanks, I wasn't able to find an archive. I'm sure you noticed the quotes were accurate and I thank you for the support.

> Many many many things that are unwise and can increase pressure on communities' resources are not illegal.

Nobody said they were. The argument was that cousin marriage should be illegal since it which doubles the rate of birth defects as the genomics article mentions.

> "Some guy working for the NHS wrote a blogpost saying that X should maybe not be made illegal" is quite a long way from "the NHS thinks [any particular thing]".

But the NHS Genomics Education Programme proposing that incest not be illegal is very far from "some guy working for the NHS wrote a blogpost", as I'm sure you're aware.

> The article wasn't at all about whether "they should pay for the care of the people that do"

Yes, it was. Not banning incest marriages increases the risk of birth defects.

> the actual thing they published (and unpublished shortly after, after backlash stoked by the right-wing press):

I'm sure you're as thankful for the right wing press for raising awareness of the matter, and likewise am disappointed about the left wing press for ignoring it.

Re: Where did all the public bathrooms go?

#800

Post by nailer »

gjm11 wrote: post #774
modo_mario wrote: post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding point 1 I refer to point 3 and regarding point 3 i refer to point 1.

I don't think I understand; would you care to be more explicit?

Not the person you're asking but it's fairly obvious:

> 1. things that are unwise and can increase pressure on communities' resources

> 3. The article wasn't at all about whether "they should pay for the care of the people that do".

Increasing pressure on communities' resources is that community paying for people that engage in incest.

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