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4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

bbc.com

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Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#791

Post by YetAnotherNick »

oliwarner wrote: post #140
3rodents wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not really true. The Ofcom representative said “not allowed” not “unable to”. Even if cocaine is legal in my country, I’m “not allowed” to sell it to British consumers by the power of the British authorities. The British authorities may not have legal authority in my jurisdiction but they can take action in their own, including issuing penalties and stopping my deliveries at the border.

But if a Brit comes to your country and buys cocaine from you, in person, you wouldn't expect to be convicted as a dealer in the UK. Ofcom has a bad handle on web requests . Clients connect out. 4chan et al aren't pushing their services in anyone in the UK.

> But if a Brit comes to your country and buys cocaine from you, in person, you wouldn't expect to be convicted as a dealer in the UK.

No? All countries catch drug dealers from other countries all the time even for the crime that happened outside of their borders. Or do you really think El Chapo could vacation freely in Europe.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#792

Post by ilovecake1984 »

LaurensBER wrote: post #155
mrtksn wrote: post #148

Europeans are following the wrong path on regulating the internet. Instead of calling it internet safety and annoy people, they should just make those services and the people running them liable for the damages. The same goes for the freedom of speech. Europeans should make it legal guarantee instead of trying to build walls around speech. So when X or 4Chan etc deletes a post, it may lead to freedom of speech fines…

I agree but you have to understand that a lot of European (leaders) still have WW2 in the back of their head. For them there're far worse things than giving up some freedoms. One can agree or disagree with this but Europe's actions are far more understandable if you see where they're coming from. From what it's worth, the younger generation doesn't seem to see this the same way so whatever censure Europe introduces t…

Totally. We don’t believe in free speech in the way the us does.

We believe in the freedom of genuine political discussion.

Nobody believes in free speech.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#793

Post by oliwarner »

mattmanser wrote: post #180
oliwarner wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if a Brit comes to your country and buys cocaine from you, in person, you wouldn't expect to be convicted as a dealer in the UK. Ofcom has a bad handle on web requests . Clients connect out. 4chan et al aren't pushing their services in anyone in the UK.

Not so clear cut though is it. For example, does 4chan use a CDN? And is that CDN on UK/EU soil, serving this content? Therefore they're actually transacting that business on UK/EU soil. Didn't the US use this argument to prosecute and extradite the Mega founder? I wonder if the UK/EU will reverse uno the US's stance and start extraditions on US CEOs.

> Didn't the US use this argument to prosecute and extradite the Mega founder?

The extradition has succeeded so far because it's based on acts that would have met a criminal bar in New Zealand, and deemed to have a high likelihood of being successfully prosecuted. Fraud, copyright infringement, etc.

The US has standing because many MegaUpload servers were in the US.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#794

Post by estimator7292 »

IshKebab wrote: post #351
estimator7292 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user mails you a box with a note that says "1kg of 4chan packets pls", and a prepaid return label to an address local to you . You put the packets in the box and kick it down the street to its "destination". Job done as far as you know. The place you sent the box then repacks it and mails it to the UK. Somehow the UK thinks that you and only you have broken the law.

Not actually how TCP/IP works though.

Yes, it is. When you reply to an IP address, you don't magically punch a hole through the entire network to the user's physical location.

You send a packet to your ISP with an address on top. That packet physically travels to your nearest exchange and then the network figures out how to route it to the recipient's real location.

In addition, the recipient's IP address tells you nothing about who or where they are. It's fundamentally un-knowable from the sender's perspective, no matter what the UK wants you to think. IP addresses are not evidence of physical location.

When you receive a packet, there is no way to know where in the world it came from or where it wants to go. It's just a number. You can make guesses but it's still just reading tea leaves.

To believe that IP geolocation is in any way reliable is a gross misunderstanding of TCP/IP and networks in general.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#795

Post by bmacho »

__s wrote: post #756
bmacho wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking in Paris is harmful to the health of UK citizens residing in Paris. I'm not sure why UK hasn't banned that yet. When OSA was announced I really expected the US to state clearly that they wouldn't let UK to threaten US citizens with millions of fines if they practice their rights to Free Speech. Because this is what's happening, the UK is making open threats against US citizens when they practice their rights…

geoblocking should be on ofcom. they should be able to order UK ISPs to block non-compliant sites. everyone gets their own great firewall

I don't know how I missed this. Yes, geoblocking should be on ofcom. If they don't like my forum, then instead of sending me a ridiculously big check, putting me on interpol, capturing me at the airport etc, just tell their ISPs to block my forum.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#796

Post by Bender »

deaddodo wrote: post #52
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #5

4chan's lawyer's response: "In the only country in which 4chan operates, the United States, it is breaking no law and indeed its conduct is expressly protected by the First Amendment."[0] [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c624330lg1ko

As shown in that same article, they also responded: >>> "Companies – wherever they're based – are not allowed to sell unsafe toys to children in the UK. And society has long protected youngsters from things like alcohol, smoking and gambling. The digital world should be no different," she said. "The UK is setting new standards for online safety. Age checks and risk assessments are cornerstones of our laws, and we'll…

I believe the onus would be on countries outside of the US to block 4chan no different than China having to block a site in their great firewall for making a picture of Xi looking like Winnie the Pooh.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#797

Post by Aurornis »

w4der wrote: post #690
Aurornis wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they’ve put as much as 2 billion dollars into it. and yes, that’s billion, with a B. The original report that cited the $2 billion number was AI generated slop. The $2 billion number wasn't from Meta, it was from Arabella Advisors. The AI-generated report showed only about $20-30 million in lobbying efforts per year across all lobbying. Even the Show HN post was full of AI slop, claiming things like "months of…

> only about $20-30 million That is still an absurd amount of money

That’s on all lobbying efforts combined. It’s not out of line for a company of that scale that is trying to do things like build data centers and other such activities.

There’s a motte-and-bailey fallacy happening with that “Meta spent $2 billion” report where the $2 billion number is used as a hook but then replaced with a different argument if the other parties are observant enough to see that it’s BS

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#798

Post by Bender »

internet2000 wrote: post #25

Let kids go to 4chan. I frequented it and turned out fine.

Adding, there are far worse sites than 4chan. 4chan just happens to be the most popular or at least made to look that way. 4chan has it's own AI that drive engagement creating a massive set of threads in many boards daily and weekly. It also responds to people.

Tor .onion chans have much more taboo content to put it mildly.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#799

Post by pydry »

Daviey wrote: post #492
observationist wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so slowly. They've gone from a more or less respectable smaller country to more or less politically, culturally, and economically irrelevant in less than 10 years. I even question whether it's rational to allow them to have nukes; they should probably be required to give them up to some country that has a shot at remaining a stable and predictable geopolitical entity over the next century.

"allow"? Under what authority and governance would you remove them?

American exceptionalism is a law unto itself.

Re: 4Chan mocks £520k fine for UK online safety breaches

#800

Post by pc86 »

nehal3m wrote: post #591
kulahan wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ofcom could do it too if they had like 25 aircraft carriers and 2 of the 3 largest air forces on the planet, the best intel network, the most advanced tools, the backing of a $25T economy, the…

Might makes right I guess.

Ideologically maybe not, but practically speaking, of course. Your government can only enforce its laws against you because if you resist you get put in a cage forever or they kill you. At the end of the day, that's the reason.
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