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Astral to Join OpenAI

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Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#791

Post by kpcyrd »

thegrim33 wrote: post #631
NiloCK wrote: post #67

A concern: More and more plainly, OpenAI and Anthropic are making plays to own (and lease) the "means of production" in software. OK - I'm a pretty happy renter right now. As they gobble up previously open software stacks, how viable is it that these stacks remain open? It seems perfectly sensible to me that these providers and their users alike have an interest in further centralizing the dev lifecycle - eg, if Clau…

>> "means of production" in software Ah yes, it was impossible to write software before these companies existed, and the only way to write software is via the products from these companies. They sure do control the "means of production".

I stopped programming in python about 8-9 years ago because the tooling was so bad.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#792

Post by kortex »

KaiserPro wrote: post #694
arw0n wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ruff is nice, but not important, uv is one of the few things making the python ecosystem bearable. Python is a language for monkeys, and if you don't give monkeys good tools, they will forever entangle themselves and you . It is all garbage wrapped in garbage. At least let me deploy it without having to manually detangle all that garbage by version. I'm done pretending this is a "right tools for the right job" kind o…

Ok, what am I missing, I've used python for many many years. What does UV give us over pip + venv + pyenv? (I'm not doing this to be a dick, I genuinely want to know what the use case is)

for one, it's one tool, that does the job of all three.

it just works. i'm not sure how else to describe it other than less faffing about. it just does the right thing, every time. there's a tiny learning curve (mostly unlearning bad or redundant habits), but once you know how to wield it, it's a one stop shop.

and as mentioned, it's crazy fast.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#793

Post by zahlman »

Kwpolska wrote: post #759
zahlman wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about it coming from core-adjacent people? Was Kenneth Reitz "core-adjacent" when Requests was brought under the PSF umbrella?

Is there anyone seriously involved in packaging who is neither working at Astral nor a PyPA member?

Well, if I didn't have a bunch of other ideas for things to work on, and if I felt like anyone cared, there would be me....

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#794

Post by mapontosevenths »

sitkack wrote: post #725
bodge5000 wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If no one self-writes code anymore anyway, at least use a language that isn't a clusterfuck of bad design decisions I can get behind the idea that LLM's probably don't need a language designed for humans if humans arent writing it, but the rest of this is just daft. Pythons popularity isn't just pure luck, in fact its only been in recent years that the tooling has caught up to the point where its as easy to setup a…

Python is the blub language now.

Keep in mind that when Graham coined that term Java and C++ were considered blub languages.

Speaking as a grey beard myself, I think its safe to say that the grey beards among us will always deride those who didn't have to work as hard as they did.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#795

Post by Escapade5160 »

tw1984 wrote: post #767
ren_engineer wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

somebody looked at Claude Code's binaries and Anthropic is testing out their own app platform called antspace. Not sure why people are shocked, they've been cloning features of their API customers and adding them to their core products since day 1. Makes sense they will take user data and do it for Claude Code by copying features or buying up what developers are using so they can lock people into a stack. These are t…

> this type of stuff really makes me doubt their AGI claims, why would they bother with this stuff if they were confident of having AGI within the next few years? because AGI doesn't grow in a cage, it requires a piece of software running somewhere. someone has to build both to get that happen. that is like a high school level question.

Theoretically it only requires it for birth. One can argue that once we achieve the singularity, it could immediately scale on its own as it decides.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#796

Post by rchaud »

20k wrote: post #654
shimman wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Clean room" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Having the entire corpus of knowledge for humanity and how LLMs work, how can you honestly argue in court that this is purely clean room implementation? This is right up there with Meta lawyers claiming that when they torrent it's totally legal but when a single person torrents it's copyright infringement.

Far too many people treat AI as a way to launder copyright, it seems likely that a lot of the current state of outright plagiarism won't stand up in court

These cases will be settled out of court long before they ever reach a jury. Anthropic has agreed to pay $1.5bn in a class action suit [0]. Others will follow.

[0] https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/copyright-blog/the-bart...

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#797

Post by ddxv »

UqWBcuFx6NV4r wrote: post #706
ddxv wrote: post #127

This is why I still like to setup projects and environments with my own `make` `venv` and `pip`.

No it’s not. You do it because you didn’t see the point in changing what you do. Don’t pretend that this is your “I told you so” moment. The QOL improvement offered by uv over your approach is certainly substantial, but it’s also easy to get off of uv. Nobody here feels legitimately “trapped” in the uv “ecosystem”. For 99.999% of Python projects, if they need to get off of uv, it’s going to be a very quick thing to d…

Yes, I think we are mostly in agreement. I tried `uv` several times and never wanted to add it as a dependency because I wasn't convinced by the QOL. That being said, the biggest concern I always had was just that it was adding another layer of complexity and similar to Conda or pyenv it just wasn't something I was going to like.

I probably did come off a bit 'told you so' but I guess it was more that it felt like this was finally an answer to a question/curiosity I've had about `uv` where I didn't understand the dissonance between how others felt about it and how I did.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#798

Post by hilbertseries »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #794
sitkack wrote: post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python is the blub language now.

Keep in mind that when Graham coined that term Java and C++ were considered blub languages. Speaking as a grey beard myself, I think its safe to say that the grey beards among us will always deride those who didn't have to work as hard as they did.

And Python is four years older than Java.

Re: Astral to Join OpenAI

#799

Post by Escapade5160 »

birdfood wrote: post #747
NiloCK wrote: post #67

A concern: More and more plainly, OpenAI and Anthropic are making plays to own (and lease) the "means of production" in software. OK - I'm a pretty happy renter right now. As they gobble up previously open software stacks, how viable is it that these stacks remain open? It seems perfectly sensible to me that these providers and their users alike have an interest in further centralizing the dev lifecycle - eg, if Clau…

These companies are telling us software development is over. They are positioning themselves as the means of production. You want to build anything you do it through them. And since ‘software is solved’ this is not a software but a user acquisition.

The means of production are just files with special extensions.
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