Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

We Will Not Be Divided

notdivided.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

791–800 of 912 posts

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#791

Post by trinsic2 »

fragkakis wrote: post #621

I clearly see the point against using AI for mass surveillance and fully autonomous weapons. But for the latter, I don't see a choice. If other countries are willing to allow fully autonomous weapons using their own AI, it's no longer a matter of choice, you have to do it too.

> it's no longer a matter of choice, you have to do it too

You know, there are plenty of examples where people in positions of power choose different paths of escalation. I doesn't always need to be liner tit for tat. Some times you need to step back and look at the larger picture and decide of the escalation is worth the risk for all of humanity.

There is a video about game theory [0] that describes this problem very clearly. You have better outcomes when you make decisions outside the direct course of escalation.

Please don't talk in absolutes about these things, you have an opinion. I accept that, but its not as black and white as you think

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#793

Post by kakacik »

mlrtime wrote: post #639
ozgung wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad news for American people is that "others" are pretty good at these technologies. When I read an important AI paper chances are all the names on it are non-American, even for papers from American labs. In a real war, this becomes problematic. Every nation has some bias but I think Americans have power poisoning for being the dominant power for so long. They think they are entitled to do anything and believe th…

When you look at the world as a action movie with good/bad guys, then you're going to have a pretty bad time. There are only good/bad people for moments in time. Some are good for longer than others. But I get it, anti-American sentiment is very popular right now.

How else do you suggest common folks are supposed to view world, or well anything?

Americans do the same, hence whole world got ttump. 95% of the world aint US, so such logic is even easier for almost whole mankind - is US force of good or evil? Different places would give you different answers, and most americans would not like the actual spread these days.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#794

Post by praptak »

rayiner wrote: post #738
gruez wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That’s not their call to make. Inventors of technologies that could be used for war have never had the right to deny access to those technologies to the elected civilian government.[1] >[1] The government can make you go over to southeast Asia and kill people personally. Is this a normative statement? In other words are you simply claiming "the government has men with guns and therefore can force people/companies do…

It’s a descriptive statement about the law. But you’re mischaracterizing the normative principle underlying the law. It’s not based on power, but rather the moral duties incumbent on citizens.

The moral duty of a citizen is to sabotage their country when it becomes immoral.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#795

Post by frogperson »

grey-area wrote: post #531

This has much broader implications for the US economy and rule of law in the US. If government procurement rules intended for national security risks can be abused as a way to punish Anthropic for perceived lack of loyalty, why not any other company that displeases the administration like Apple or Amazon? This marks an important turning point for the US.

Im sorry to say the turning point has well passed. The US is a facist country with leaders who will flaunt the rule of law.

Please memorize the 14 points of fascism, you will see examples of this multiple times a day. Its ecerywhere.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#796

Post by tonymet »

Allowing anonymous signatories only weakens the petition. Two important people signing a petition is worth more than 10000 anons.

I scrolled through a few pages and 40-60% are anonymous. Even a handful weakens the petition.

I wish more people would participate in civics . Attend your city council or local political party meeting. See what it takes to actually collect signatures, run a campaign.

Online slactivism actually just worsens the cause, because potential energy is vented on futile online “petitions” rather than taking real action.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#797

Post by trinsic2 »

rayiner wrote: post #354
yed wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, for one, they haven’t invoked the Defense Production Act.

The very first point on the website is: “The Department of War is threatening to … Invoke the Defense Production Act.”

You mean the Department of Defense? Just because a Authoritarian Regime starts renaming our critical institutions doesn't make it so. Its kind of like calling the "Gulf of Mexico" the "Gulf of America ". Its stupid to step into line with this.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#798

Post by snickerbockers »

Atreiden wrote: post #681
skissane wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me put it this way–if Boeing is developing a new missile, and they say to the Pentagon–"this missile can't be used yet, it isn't safe"–and the Pentagon replies "we don't care, we'll bear that risk, send us the prototype, we want to use it right now"–how does Boeing respond? I expect they'll ask the Pentagon to sign a liability disclaimer and then send it anyway. Whereas, Anthropic is saying they'll refuse to let…

Why are we gauging our ethical barometer on the actions of existing companies and DoD contractors? the military industrial apparatus has been insane for far too long, as Eisenhower warned of. When we're entering the realm of "there isn't even a human being in the decision loop, fully autonomous systems will now be used to kill people and exert control over domestic populations" maybe we should take a step back and ex…

There are two separate aspects to this case.

* autonomous weapons systems

* private defense contractor leverages control over products it has already sold to set military doctrine.

The second one is at least as important as the first one, because handing over our defense capabilities to a private entity which is accountable to nobody but it's shareholders and executive management isn't any better than handing them over to an LLM afflicted with something resembling BPD. The first problem absolutely needs to be solved but the solution cannot be to normalize the second problem.

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#799

Post by trinsic2 »

abhijitr wrote: post #211

The book "On Tyranny: 20 lessons from the 20th century" by the historian Timothy Snyder is an excellent read for these times. The very first lesson is "Do not obey in advance". It's about how authoritarian power often doesn't need to force compliance, people simply bend the knee in anticipation of being forced. This simply emboldens the authoritarians to go further. I've been disappointed to see many businesses and i…

This came up in my noncooperation training recently[0]. Thank you for posting this.

[0]: https://freedomtrainers.net/

Re: We Will Not Be Divided

#800

Post by jim33442 »

rayiner wrote: post #719
heresie-dabord wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> much broader implications Setting aside the spectacular metastasis of a lawless kakistocracy that is literally rewriting the facts on record... Anthropic's leadership has wisely attempted to make it clear that its product is not fit for the US DoD's purpose/objective, which is automated killing at scale. It would be (is) grossly, historically negligent to operate weapons with LLMs. Anthropic built systems for a thu…

[flagged]

Anthropic can certainly make the call to deny access this way, but then the US govt can choose not to make contracts with Anthropic. So what's the issue?
Post reply on HN