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The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

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Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#791

Post by dwedge »

iso1631 wrote: post #776
dwedge wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you but I also agree with the person you wrote to. There's a section in Naomi Klein's No Logo about banning advertising, and what that would actually mean in effect. It essentially comes down to not allowing, for example, different cereal brands to have different designs because then the design of the box becomes a kind of advertising. It might sound nit picking, and it absolutely is, but if we banned In…

> It's much like how in the UK they banned advertising for tobacco, and years later had to expand it so that supermarkets cannot even show the products visibly because the brand has their own inherent advertising that's visible if you can see it. So they got rid of 90% of adverts, then adjusted it to get that upto 99% Meanwhile you're saying "lets use brainwashing to get 8 year olds hooked because we might not get 10…

> Meanwhile you're saying "lets use brainwashing to get 8 year olds hooked because we might not get 100% on the first attempt"

I said absolutely nothing of the sort and that hostile style of arguing has no place on this site. I will no longer be engaging with you.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#792

Post by fsflover »

justinclift wrote: post #526
lich_king wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's revisionism. Social media existed before online advertising. Usenet was quite massive and vibrant, countless IRC servers were maintained by volunteers, web-based forums covered pretty much the same ground as Reddit does today. All supported by the goodwill of individuals, non-profits, and businesses such as ISPs that actively wanted the internet to be interesting because they were making money by selli…

> All supported by the goodwill of individuals, non-profits, and businesses ... That goodwill seems to be in short supply since... hmmm the mid 2000's (rough guess). And goodwill like that seems to be honestly not even understood by the generation(s)* since then. * Saying "generations" (plural) there because we've had quite a few people go through their formative years during this time and not just a single clearly d…

That's exactly because the goodwill competes with billions of profits.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#793

Post by maccard »

owisd wrote: post #759
maccard wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OPs comment isn’t a charade, he’s pointing out that it’s a very blurry line. If I receive compensation from company A for a product, and I genuinely like it, is it advertising if I talk about another item on their product line that I bought because of the free item I got? If I run a retail business, and have a better deal with a provider, am I allowed to prioritise their results? If I run an AI SAAS, with a bring you…

>> HN commenters are not legislators > That doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to have a discussion about it. To steel man, there's a commenting pattern where if someone doesn't like a high-level idea they demand answers to a dozen specifics that, if it were a legitimate proposal going through a legislature, could take hundreds of people months or years of committees, reports & consultations to decide on all the answers…

I’m just going to paste a section of my comment above to you

> I’m not trying to gish gallop you here - the point isn’t to cherry pick any specific example it’s that advertising isn’t just a billboard or a sponsored VPN segment in a YT video.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#794

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

dahart wrote: post #750
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we also going to target in app advertising? If not, every website will just tell you you must use their app

In this hypothetical scenario, why are you assuming in-app advertising would be any different from browser advertising? Re-read @phire’s comment above; the proposal was to get rid of targeted advertising that uses your personal data to make advertising decisions. I assumed that would apply to all advertising channels, including both web and in-app ads, otherwise you’d be right and it probably wouldn’t work.

Are you also going to ban websites that aren’t hosted by the US from being seen in the US that have advertising?

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#795

Post by loeg »

sincerely wrote: post #533
loeg wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I know it when I see it" notoriously does not work in law, either. Instead, we have the Miller test.

Pt 1 of the Miller test is just "I know it when I see it" where "I" is a hypothetical random person

Not really. It has slightly more well-defined criteria than that. Material must satisfy all three prongs to be considered obscene.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#796

Post by raw_anon_1111 »

gpm wrote: post #761
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you acting like this is something hypothetical? The Trump administration just cut funding for both NPR and PBS because they are “too woke” The same government who threatened to take ABC broadcast license because Kimmel made a joke about a dead podcaster

You're making the counter argument. Government funded media may be cut or controlled in times of (wannabe) dictators, but the same applies to privately funded media (see Kimmel, Colbert, CBS, Washington Post, etc)

So if the government controls the media - who is going to hold the government accountable?

And then there is that entire “free press” thing in the constitution.

And Disney quickly recanted as soon as people started canceling, even the conservative owned local affiliates had to back down.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#797

Post by dahart »

fsflover wrote: post #787
dahart wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like you missed the point; banning compensated advertising wouldn’t fix the problem at all.

I don't see why it wouldn't.

Even though I gave an example of a huge swath of advertising that isn’t “compensated”?

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#798

Post by BurningFrog »

jimnotgym wrote: post #613
coldtea wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ads are speech. No, they are not. People have been brainwashed and legal systems have been paid and bought for to consider them as such, just like corporations have been whitewashed to be treated as "persons". In any case, we regulate all other kinds of speech as well: explicit content, libel, classified information, cigarette ads, and so on.

Let's start there. Corporations being persons is a legal fiction to allow them to consolidate capital. Giving that fictional person human rights is abhorrent to humans. It is a crime against humans. It degrades us.

Corporations are groups of people working together. I don't see why that makes people lose their rights.

If only individuals are allowed freedom of speech NYT, CNN, and other news organizations do not have first amendment rights.

Are you sure you've thought this through?

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#799

Post by jodrellblank »

bruce511 wrote: post #439
Funes- wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"well what specific laws would I write to combat addictive design?" Hear me out: banning advertising on the Internet. It's the only way. It's the primordial domino tile. You knock that one over, every other tile follows suit. It's the mother of chain reactions. There would be no social media, no Internet as we know it. Imagine having TikTok, YouTube or X trying to survive on subscriptions alone in their current iter…

Define "advertising". I feel this might be hard to do. For example is my blog talking about Windows considered as Advertising? What about my blog discussing products we make? What about the web site for my local restaurant? If I add my restaurant location to Google maps, is that advertising? Are review sites? If I'm an aggregator (like booking.com) and I display the results for a search is that advertising? I assume…

To quote Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it".

> "Your suggestion is, unfortunately, not implementable."

How about trying it before giving up? Cookie banners were implementable. Laws requiring ID schemes are being implemented. Know-your-customer laws have been implemented. GDPR has been implemented. HIPPA and Sarbanes-Oxley have been implemented. Anti-pornography laws have been implemented despite the gotcha of "but but how will anyone tell what's porn and what isn't?".

"not making a decision" is a decision. Companies are exploiting advertising - trying to avoid doing anything that might be imperfect because it's hard is taking a position, and it's a position in favour of explotative advertising.

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