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Tesla ending Models S and X production

cnbc.com

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Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#791

Post by everfrustrated »

jordanb wrote: post #765
WarmWash wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trust me, I hate Tesla and Elon as much as the next naysayer But just to keep the story straight Tesla received ~$3 billion in subsidies. When Elon exercised his Tesla options in 2021, he paid $11 billion in taxes on it. By all accounts those subsidies were an incredibly good use of taxpayer money, and similar subsidies should keep being handed out, even if the byproduct is another big troll on twitter.

Dunno where that $3 billion comes from; tesla made 11 billion in regulatory credits alone: https://insideevs.com/news/767939/tesla-regulatory-credit-11...

If you even read the article you linked, you'd be aware the source of the money there is from other vehicle manufacturers to Tesla not from govt/tax payers.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#792

Post by alterom »

assimpleaspossi wrote: post #720
breve wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's a flop: https://insideevs.com/news/784715/tesla-cybertruck-ev-sales-...

A flop is not a truck that was the best selling in the world two years ago and then 3/4 as many as Ford's EV truck and more than everyone else (according to your link). And since when is HN just like Reddit when one is downvoted for asking a question for clarity?

OK, not a flop.

An failure that didn't live up to the hype that generated the initial sales volume in pre-orders.

The idea of the Cybertruck sold well — at a time before Musk's Roman salutes, shadowing Trump, running DOGE, and further enshittifying what remains of Twitter.

The actual Cybertruck, once the pre-orders ran out... did not.

Nearly half of all Cybertrucks sold (about 75% of those sold in 2024) were pre-orders.

That's to say, people stopped buying once they saw the Cybertruck for what it actually was (ditto for Elon).

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#793

Post by dstroot »

sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

And Elon canceled the S and X models but not the Cybertruck? C’mon…

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#794

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

trhway wrote: post #338
sampton wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember when was the last S/X refresh. It's nuts they just let it go stale and shut the factory down.

The refresh would need large investment. And it seems that S/X weren't selling that well to warrant such an investment. Just looking around - SV, a key market for Tesla - everybody buys 3 and Y, not S and X. In some sense it seems that 3/Y cannibalized S/X.

How can legacy auto refresh models every two years and Tesla cannot?

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#795

Post by root_axis »

gkfasdfasdf wrote: post #780
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

> And to add insult to injury, even GM Super Cruise is widely renowned as better and safer than Tesla’s current “FSD”. Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am. At least one major insurance company agrees [0]. I don't have any experience with Super Cruise though. [0] - https://www.lemonade.com/fsd

> Do you have any sources for that claim? I can attest that current iteration of FSD is very, very good, and very likely is a safer driver than I am.

That's a damning statement about your driving skills, and probably not true or you'd have had your license revoked by now. I've had FSD for five years, and even today it regularly makes dangerous mistakes. For example, left turns and roundabouts are the equivalent of Russian roulette, but just last week my FSD started driving through a red light because it interpreted a green left-arrow as a sign that it could proceed forward.

If you need to do 50 miles on the interstate it's pretty solid though.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#796

Post by extraduder_ire »

asah wrote: post #764
sgjohnson wrote: post #485

Tesla will become a case study on how to completely waste the first-mover advantage. For many people, the very term EV itself is still ubiquitous to Tesla. And somehow Tesla is still worth more than every other non-Chinese automaker combined. $1.5T. GM? $80B. Stellantis? $40B. Toyota? $280B. Mercedes-Benz? $60B. BMW? $55B. Volkswagen Group? Also $55B. I’m sure I’ve missed plenty of others, but I could miss some 18 $5…

SpaceX will acquire Tesla and save the shareholders, just like Tesla acquired SolarCity.

Can they afford to do that? I would assume it would be the other way around unless the valuation of either/both changes drastically.

XAI acquiring twitter is probably a better recent example than solarcity.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#797

Post by wmeredith »

swedishuser wrote: post #656

Pretty sad seeing people take pleasure in the company failing. See past your opinion about it's leader. At the end of the day, it's the company that brought vehicle electrification to the masses and has acted cash cow for SpaceX, Starlink and Neuralink.

> See past your opinion about it's leader.

This is like asking Mrs. Lincoln what she thought about the play. The scope of the (financial and physical) damage by Musk's government meddling is breathtaking, is ongoing, and will echo for generations.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#798

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

lacker wrote: post #314
riffraff wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you expect the demand for Tesla's robotaxis to be high? I don't see it.

If they actually worked right now, the demand would be high. Demand is certainly high for Waymos. Even if they worked worse than a Waymo I think the demand would still be very high. But it's hard to tell if (or when) it will work well enough to actually be a real product.

> Even if they worked worse than a Waymo I think the demand would still be very high.

They may already work better than a Waymo. It's hard to tell. It's certainly there using the public version of FSD. There's awkwardness, but the same can be said of Waymo. What I don't know is how many mandatory edge cases remain to be handled before they can set it free.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#799

Post by vannevar »

linkregister wrote: post #290
vannevar wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure China can. But nobody is producing consumer humanoid robots at any scale yet, so Tesla can at least make the argument that they'll make better robots when people actually start buying robots. People are buying cars at scale right now, and existing Tesla models have fallen behind their Chinese competitors.

Unitree delivered 5500 humanoid robots in 2025.

Another 10 years and maybe they will have sold as many as Sony sold Aibo robot dogs. You're making my point---it's not a significant market, and won't be for many years.

Re: Tesla ending Models S and X production

#800

Post by root_axis »

sebastian_z wrote: post #715

A genuine question, what are the use cases for Tesla's Optimus robots? Are they consumer products that help with household chores, industrial robots for warehouses or manufacturing, a play toy, something else?

If a use case emerges it will have to be industrial or commercial. The power and maintenance constraints for a robot like that make it pretty impractical for home use.
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