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FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#791

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> to follow federal agents around, harass them, and prevent them from doing their jobs. That’s textbook Obstruction of Justice. It is illegal to prevent an officer from doing their job. Filming officiers performing their jobs is not obstruction, even if it does make them uncomfortable. If it makes their jobs harder that's only because they know what they're doing is unpopular and don't want to be known to have done i…

> despite majority support among their constituency A very vocal minority is not a majority.

It's a majority of Democrat voters.

> Democrats overwhelmingly support eliminating ICE (76% vs. 15%), as do nearly half of Independents (47% vs. 35%). Most Republicans (73%) continue to oppose abolishing ICE. Only 19% of Republicans support eliminating the agency

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/53939-more-americ...

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are experiencing wildly different Americas depending on their circumstances and level of political involvement. If you're a tech worker and you still have a job and you think AI is pretty cool and you don't follow news very closely, things seem okay...ish. You are maybe dimly aware of some social problems, but they're all somebody else's problems. If you're one of the many many thousands of people who have bee…

> in one of our concentration camps As a European, I find the use of "concentration camp" to be a very strong word. Trump and its administration are often touted as a Nazi and such. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much of this is real? Nazis were systemic against a religion and disabilities. They made systemic ways of exterminating those deemed "unpure". The concentration camps had gas chambers to kill people.…

Fellow European. They are not death camps, but what information does come out of them does sound a lot like concentration camps, already prior to Trump coming to office.

These are all stories about the facility the 5 year old toddler from last week is kept, a facility known as "baby jail".

https://www.proskauerforgood.com/2018/06/pro-bono-for-immigr... https://www.aila.org/blog/volunteering-in-family-detention-s... https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/stories-reve...

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#793
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> The Pretti shooting has been ruled a homicide, by the way.

I don't see anything in e.g. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2026/01/27/alex-p... to substantiate that; and as far as I can tell there have not yet been any other investigations, and thus no other opportunity for such a ruling.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#794
post #780

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> in one of our concentration camps As a European, I find the use of "concentration camp" to be a very strong word. Trump and its administration are often touted as a Nazi and such. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much of this is real? Nazis were systemic against a religion and disabilities. They made systemic ways of exterminating those deemed "unpure". The concentration camps had gas chambers to kill people.…

Nazis were systemic against a religion and disabilities. They made systemic ways of exterminating those deemed "unpure". The concentration camps had gas chambers to kill people. Is this really what is happening in the US? It is often useful to differentiate between "concentration camps" and "death camps" or "extermination camps". The Nazis had both. Some of their concentration camps were focused on concentrating and…

Thank you for the clarification!

I do agree that there are three slight between "concentration", "death", and "extermination" camps when speaking about Nazi Germany. In France virtually only "concentration" is used in history classes as an umbrella term for all three. It's only very recently (less than 5 years) that I've seen people start to use the more nuanced term. (as an example, any French will tell you that Auschwitz is a concentration camp while it was, in fact, a death camp).

Yet I stand behind what I said about the word "concentration camp" be a strong and heavy word, since those were integral part in the final solution.

I'm not denying that the US has detainment camps akin to the "gentlest" camps from Nazi Germany, far from it. However, I fail to see the difference between e.g. the East Montana one and a large-scale 5k inmate prison, other than it's less regulated than a federal/regular prison thus with more abuse, and filled with regular people instead of criminals. According to the linked Wikipedia articles, the camp has been dubbed after the Alcatraz prison (known for all sorts of violations).

I may be wrong, and they may be indeed set up by ICE and the government to torture and kill the immigrants. I have a hard time to believe it though, as making a detainment camp to frighten and push immigrants to "go back" would me much more effective and less controversial. My guess would be the intent is the latter form of facility, but ends up being the former due to being staffed with ICE and not professional prison crew.

At any rate, even having detainment camps for non-convicted civilians is already too much. We're quick to point fingers at China and their labor camps for Uyghurs, but this is on the way. (as with the Nazi discussion, this is still far from what china does: ad-vitam detainment, children born in captivity, forced sterilization of people, forced religion, etc).

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are experiencing wildly different Americas depending on their circumstances and level of political involvement. If you're a tech worker and you still have a job and you think AI is pretty cool and you don't follow news very closely, things seem okay...ish. You are maybe dimly aware of some social problems, but they're all somebody else's problems. If you're one of the many many thousands of people who have bee…

> in one of our concentration camps As a European, I find the use of "concentration camp" to be a very strong word. Trump and its administration are often touted as a Nazi and such. How much of this is hyperbole, and how much of this is real? Nazis were systemic against a religion and disabilities. They made systemic ways of exterminating those deemed "unpure". The concentration camps had gas chambers to kill people.…

The first nazi concentration camp was founded in 1933, gas chambers and systematic killing were only added in 1941 when the "final solution" was implemented. Those last four years are the most well-known period, but for the majority of Hitler's rule concentration camps were just what it says on the tin: camps where undesirables were concentrated. Places that became overcrowded, hotbeds for disease, labor camps and places of medical experimentation. Plenty of people died there even in that period, but from causes like illness, work accidents, malnutrition and bad medical care.

ICE detention centers are not comparable to a 1942 nazi death camp, but comparisons to a 1939 concentration camp seem apt

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#796

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> any opposition is a crime of impeding and obstruction No; conspiracy to impede and obstruct is a crime. If you are about to do something I don't want you to do, but which is lawful for you to do, 1A covers me saying "hey, don't do that". It does not cover me physically positioning myself in a way that prevents you from doing it. And if you happen to be an LEO and the thing you're about to do is a law enforcement ac…

Conspiracy to impede and obstruct criminal behaviour is not a crime, it's legitimate self-defence. The fact that federal agents are breaking the law doesn't change that. At all. In spite of what you've been told federal LEO are bound by the law. Executing random bystanders on a whim, operating without visible ID, failing to allow congressional oversight of facilities, failing to give those captured access to a lawyer…

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#797

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Also consider that there are 340 million people in the US. With that sort of population size, you can construct whatever narrative you want out of daily video clips of 1-in-a-million events. >the type to post on HN. When's the last time you saw a Trump supporter on this site? The userbase here is considerably further left than a very left-wing state such as California. That will very much be reflected in what gets po…

California isn't "very left-wing". It's liberal, centre-left if you're being kind. The democrats are a centre-right party with some mildly-leftist pockets of members.

I am pointing out that HN is not very representative of the US political spectrum, and opinions about what's going on in the US will be filtered based on that. You're largely just hearing from one set of partisans here.

By US standards, California is very left-wing. International standards are not super relevant. (I'm also a bit skeptical of the cliche that the Democrats are a right-wing party internationally. For example, Obama endorsed Trudeau in Canada. But again, not super relevant.)

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#798

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It would help if they stopped holding demonstrations in front of facilities with huge amounts of facial recognition technology. Protesting is not something you should do "casually."

Protesting is a fundamental human right and obligation. It is something that you should do as casually as you would voting, volunteering, and taking out the garbage: something you do from time to time when the moment demands it. See also: https://enwp.org/Chilling_effect

> Protesting is a fundamental human right

That doesn't include vandalism, it doesn't include blocking roads, looting, or assaulting people. What's obvious to me is that a certain class of protestors are intentionally provoking a response from the government by breaking the law. Inevitably someone is arrested, hurt, or killed, and that is used as an excuse for more protests. The protests get increasingly violent in an escalating cycle.

That process isn't exercising a "fundamental human right", it's a form of violence. If you don't agree with the Government the correct answer is to vote, have a dialog, and if you choose to protest do it in a way that's respectful to your neighbors and the people around you.

Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy to impede and obstruct criminal behaviour is not a crime, it's legitimate self-defence. The fact that federal agents are breaking the law doesn't change that. At all. In spite of what you've been told federal LEO are bound by the law. Executing random bystanders on a whim, operating without visible ID, failing to allow congressional oversight of facilities, failing to give those captured access to a lawyer…

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Re: FBI is investigating Minnesota Signal chats tracking ICE

#800

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>The people in these groups are coordinating for a specific reason: to follow federal agents around, harass them, and prevent them from doing their jobs. To observe them, and prevent them from committing crimes. Which if it isn't legal, is moral as all get out. "Jobs" Nurmberg lol. Not an argument.

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>Being Disingenuous

Crying disingenuous when I disagree with you isn't an argument.

>but it won't change anything about what the FBI should and shouldn't do.

What does that have to do with the price of wheat.

>And neither does crying "Nazi" whenever someone does something you don't like.

Why do you suddenly cry "Crying Nazi". Do you have sins to confess?

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