Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone" • Hacker News Board

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#791

Post by SpicyUme » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 10:55 PM UTC

oldjim798 wrote: post #284

deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

All this applies to cars as well. Drivers are wild and driving is absurdly dangerous. I hate driving because other drives act like they are the car in the world - particularly post covid. Here in Toronto turn signals feel like they have been uninstalled. We have a ton of street racers tearing up the roads. I see motorcyclists pop wheelies and rip down major streets weekly. All of your complaints about lack of pro soc…

I sit on the bus watching 10~25% of drivers on their phones watching videos at 60mph on my way to work. All ages too, including surprising old people. I live on a street that's posted 25 MPH and watch people impatient with the light down the block try to cut around traffic at ~40 down a narrow 1.5 lane street. Several times this year I've watched people cross a double yellows to drive into oncoming traffic to make a turn or skip past traffic. On Monday I was late to work because a driver ran into a pedestrian, stopped, then drove off, leaving him bleeding from the head on the side of the road.

Yeah, let's talk about antisocial behaviors. I'm getting to the point where I think roads should be designed specifically to inconvenience drivers. And I am one, I like being able to drive across the state, or across town to places that can take a long time by transit. Cars can be great.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#792

Post by vkou » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 10:56 PM UTC

felineflock wrote: post #768

vkou wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cities only prosecute misdemeanors, and have no control over felony investigations or prosecutions. Police departments in all cities politically lean hard-right. The state and the PD has far more influence over access to firearms and serious crime than a city's politics do. A city's authority is largely limited to handing out parking tickets and graffiti citations. And republican supermajority states have never had a…

Your assumptions are incorrect: felony prosecution is not outside local control, and police politics are irrelevant. How many times a PD arrests a criminal then a judge later releases? That criminal with 30-year history would never be free if judged in a rural county instead of urban NYC or Charlotte. The real drivers are prosecutorial policies driven by political priorities. And we all know that who sides with crimi…

> Your assumptions are incorrect: felony prosecution is not outside local control, and police politics are irrelevant.

Felony prosecution is done by DAs, which are subservient to the state.

Police politics is completely relevant, because they prioritize enforcement and have incredible leeway in its execution.

> The real drivers are prosecutorial policies driven by political priorities.

Those policies are ultimately set at the state level, because that's who DAs are accountable to.

> And we all know that who sides with criminals most of the time are the Democrats.

Is that why the Republican party has elected a convicted felon to lead it?

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#793

Post by fragmede » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 10:58 PM UTC

solarexplorer wrote: post #434

Saline9515 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reason among others, but this bike-centric policy (pedestrians nor public transport are the priority) led to an exodus of families [0]. I am among them, as I realized pretty quickly that it's a real pain to move around, buy groceries, go to the doctor, and so on with very young children in Paris, especially if you don't own a car. And now you have to deal with the uncivil behavior of the cyclists, moreover. It…

It really depends on the city/quarter where you live. I live in the center of Barcelona and had no problems with two small kids at all. Supermarkets, real farmer's markets, hospitals, pharmacies, schools, etc are all within 10min walking distance. I work from home, but I could walk to the office it I wanted to. I don't have to leave the city at all. Eventually I gave in and bought a car, not because it was necessary…

> Eventually I gave in and bought a car, not because it was necessary but rather to leave the city on weekends and get closer to nature.

How much does parking for that cost the rest of the week? How much is your car payment + insurance + fuel? Presumably you did the math and it's cheaper to have bought one, including a nominal amount for your time to rent one on Friday and return it Sunday night. So I'm just curious.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#794

Post by TacticalCoder » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:05 PM UTC

ionwake wrote: post #553

deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

>Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time As a european I read this comment, its sort of implications, and reckon US must be hell in some areas. TBH London has seen a big drop in health, pan handlers have "lightly" started appearing on public transport, I think I only began noticing it since 2020. My point is even with the occasionaly pan handler in London, that statement wouldn…

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#795

Post by wiredpancake » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:15 PM UTC

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#796

Post by bjackman » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:15 PM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #77

abraxas wrote: post #49

North Americans visiting Europe often grapple with why they enjoy European cities more than North American ones. It's often perceived as an architecture issue ("Europe has historical buildings that we don't have") but very few notice that the main difference is the urban scale and the resulting walkability. The Netherlands has plenty of modernist and even brutalist architecture yet every city there is a pretty nice p…

Important to note is how most cities have two (or more) zones; the old inner city for leisure, tourism, shopping and going out, the suburban areas around it where most people live, and industrial / office building estates where most people work. Amsterdam is a great example [0] and well-known for a lot of tourists, with the city center being the tourism hub, the zones around it for living, west/northwest for industry…

I disagree that this is the norm and I don't think it's a goal to aspire to.

The nicest places for humans to exist in have a mixed-use basis. Yes some areas are purely industrial and some areas are dominated by retail or offices, that's fine. But fully segregated residential zones are depressing and nonsensical.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#797

Post by wiredpancake » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:16 PM UTC

woile wrote: post #17

IFC_LLC wrote: post #8

It's all fine and dandy until you realize that economy pays a big buck for faster and more comfortable ways of transporting a body. (And it's been this way since time memorial). You either transport your body fast, or you are missing out. And the greatest thing to miss out is an opportunity. While programmers can live in one room for years and just use Zoom for everything, others can't. Sorry to say, but most of my E…

You can transport your body faster by walking than by taking a car. But of course, this depends on how you design a city. If I have a supermarket 5 minute walk from home, is going to be faster than taking the car out, and finding a parking lot and finally walking to the supermarket. And let's not forget, that if you want a more fair society, you cannot assume that just everybody can afford a car. I went to university…

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#798

Post by potac » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:18 PM UTC

I'm from Pontevedra. It has been the major's long-term project (~ 20 years) to make the city for the pedestrians: and he's done it. This works mainly because of two things: 1) the city is small and it takes aprox 30 min to walk it entirely from end to end, and 2) it is mostly flat. Only a smooth hill from "orillamar" to "alameda/peregrina". Unfortunately, the major obsessed with getting rid of cars (which I am highly grateful) but forgot to provide reliable public transport to close-by villages (max 5km,i.e., Poio/Marin/Salcedo). This means tha people from these villages commute by car to the city, which has really poor parking capacity. And the most important thing: there are zero specialized jobs in Pontevedra. Either you are a public state worker, for which you need to pass an exam to lock a lifelong job with no possibility of being fired regardless of how incompetent you are, or you work in hospitality. My partner works in Santiago and I work in the UK. There is no future for us in our city unless we want to study and compete for a position with thousands of other Spaniards. I firmly believe the major should also prioritise quality jobs. It is pretty nice for tourists to experience a city with no cars, but the reality of most locals is that they either leave or settle to accept precarious jobs.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#799

Post by cyberax » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:19 PM UTC

deltarholamda wrote: post #225

powvans wrote: post #10

This is really amazing to see trending on HN. I spent a couple days in Pontevedra this summer while walking the Camino de Santiago. It was absolutely delightful and what I experienced aligns with the article. The old town was filled with wide streets almost exclusively for walking, cafes and restaurants that sprawled into plazas, and people young and old enjoying the car free public space. It was one of the first sto…

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

> I'm a big supporter of urbanism.

Well, it leads to the behavior that you mentioned. It's unavoidable and it'll keep getting worse as the price of housing in dense cities continues to soar.

Your only choice? Move to suburbs and wait for self-driving cars. I get downvoted every time I say this, but that's the simple truth.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#800

Post by II2II » Wed, Sep 10, 2025, 11:19 PM UTC

oldjim798 wrote: post #284

deltarholamda wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where it exists you can see that there is tremendous demand for it. Everybody loves public transit until they get panhandled for the jillionth time, or they witness (or experience) violence, or some other anti-social behavior sours the whole thing. I spent some time in NYC during the Giuliani years, after the city did a lot of work cleaning it all up: stopping turnstile jumpers, removing graffiti, more police, etc.…

All this applies to cars as well. Drivers are wild and driving is absurdly dangerous. I hate driving because other drives act like they are the car in the world - particularly post covid. Here in Toronto turn signals feel like they have been uninstalled. We have a ton of street racers tearing up the roads. I see motorcyclists pop wheelies and rip down major streets weekly. All of your complaints about lack of pro soc…

> All of your complaints about lack of pro social behavior applies to drivers too.

I would argue that drivers are worse. I've had motorists stop me while crossing a multilane street asking for directions. I'm thinking, "WTF, this isn't a safe place to stop and talk." I've also have had drivers pass by me while I was laying on the road. (One time after flipping on my bike because of street car tracks. The other time after being struck by another vehicle.) And these are normal people I'm talking about here, not some "big scary" stereotype.