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‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

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Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#791

Post by austhrow743 »

kn0where wrote: post #239
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

It’s fine to accept your mom or your neighbor changing their mind, but I think we should be skeptical of politicians changing their mind and consider what hidden, calculated motives they may have for changing it now, when they had plenty of information to reach the same conclusion over a year ago.

Politicians represent your mum and neighbour.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#792

Post by pegasus »

supplied_demand wrote: post #352
zetazzed wrote: post #220

I see an increasing number of politicians taking the position: "I supported Israel's government's actions when they first attacked, given the goals of destroying Hamas' leadership and freeing hostages, but now that it has turned into a brutal siege with mass civilian casualties on a horrific scale, I'm strongly against their actions." E.g. Macron, Angus King, and many people I know personally. And I think we need to…

I remember a lot of people predicting it would lead to this from the start. The response was often along the lines of “If you don’t support Israel’s invasion, you are pro-Hamas.” If those people had a come-to-Jesus moment, great. That said, they probably owe an apology to the people they demonized as supporting terrorism.

How about this response: "Denying Israel the right to protect themselves can't help but strengthen Hamas and won't bring anything other than more suffering to all parties. Israel will do what they need to do, all we can do is hope they will stop short of sinking to the same levels as Oct 7 perpetrators, even though historically it's unlikely, and even though Israel being dragged deeper into that murderous rage pit is exactly what Hamas aims for."

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#794

Post by throw310822 »

pegasus wrote: post #780
throw310822 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree it's very important to welcome people who changed their minds, there are a few things that still annoy me: - the situation was actually very clear from the start - Israel has been illegally occupying, enforcing apartheid, committing war crimes for decades. You always ignored it. - I don't hear any apology about the above, nor any indication that these people won't return to their default stance of prete…

Was it clear? Did we always ignore it? Not convinced at all. All was and is not well in Palestine, but one thing I know, it ain't cut-and-dry, and Israel going all Hamas on Palestine doesn't make it so either.

Yes, it's perfectly clear and always was. One country is illegally occupying territories outside its borders, illegally annexing them, transferring their civilian population there, ethnically cleansing the natives, enforcing apartheid against those who remain, using its soldiers to protect its citizens when they engage in pogroms against the natives, periodically bombing them, stealing their water, destroying their crops- all while enjoying full diplomatic and military support from the West. Those who resist are deemed "terrorists", condemned and vilified, and are "eliminated", together with any civilians, women and children who happen to be in the way.

This has been going on for decades while the Western media ignores most of it, reporting acts of resistance and terrorism from the oppressed side as if they were motivated by ideological hatred, and in general depicting the situation as "complicated"- a position you're now repeating without a second thought.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#795

Post by forkeep »

yieldcrv wrote: post #602
supplied_demand wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a lot of people predicting it would lead to this from the start. The response was often along the lines of “If you don’t support Israel’s invasion, you are pro-Hamas.” If those people had a come-to-Jesus moment, great. That said, they probably owe an apology to the people they demonized as supporting terrorism.

That's what stands out to me the most, when they change their mind that means everyone else was always right. Blaming all of Israel's chosen military strategy on Hamas invading at all is just weird. Like, there should really be a mental evaluation of everyone that repeated lines like that. Like seriously, trawl the entire internet for those people's screennames.

[dead]

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#796

Post by pegasus »

throw310822 wrote: post #794
pegasus wrote: post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it clear? Did we always ignore it? Not convinced at all. All was and is not well in Palestine, but one thing I know, it ain't cut-and-dry, and Israel going all Hamas on Palestine doesn't make it so either.

Yes, it's perfectly clear and always was. One country is illegally occupying territories outside its borders, illegally annexing them, transferring their civilian population there, ethnically cleansing the natives, enforcing apartheid against those who remain, using its soldiers to protect its citizens when they engage in pogroms against the natives, periodically bombing them, stealing their water, destroying their c…

That's because you choose to look to only that one side of the story. Keeps things nice and tidy, it's true.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#797

Post by netsharc »

pegasus wrote: post #796
throw310822 wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's perfectly clear and always was. One country is illegally occupying territories outside its borders, illegally annexing them, transferring their civilian population there, ethnically cleansing the natives, enforcing apartheid against those who remain, using its soldiers to protect its citizens when they engage in pogroms against the natives, periodically bombing them, stealing their water, destroying their c…

That's because you choose to look to only that one side of the story. Keeps things nice and tidy, it's true.

You write as if you really really don't want to see that side of the story.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#798

Post by Zacharias030 »

sc970 wrote: post #788
buyucu wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel will not be satisfied with anything less than the complete eradication of the Palestinian people. It is hard to make peace when one side is hell-bent on mass murder.

"It is hard to make peace when one side is hell-bent on mass murder." Is this referring to the Hamas Charter? Suspect it is a typo and you meant to say both sides.

Mass murder through starvation and shooting children at aid stations.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#799

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

churchill wrote: post #3

Does anyone still need testimonies like these to be convinced that Israel is systematically exterminating the Palestinians using kinetic force and starvation? We're past that point now. Making Gaza unlivable by carpet-bombing the strip, telegraphing mass murder in unambiguous statements at the highest levels of government, dehumanizing the Palestinians and silencing anyone who dares to speak up? I, for one, am thankf…

Yeah, sorry but that's wishful thinking. As long as the people in the West have a relatively high quality of life and political stability -relative to everyone else, that is- they will not shake the foundation of their national institutions. That is even more so the case when they see how everyone else fares, who doesn't live in the West.

In a sense, seeing what happens to Palestinians, Sudanese, Somalis, Syrians, Afghans, Lebanese, Pakistanis, etc etc, is a great motivator for the citizen of the EU, USA, and friends.

If you look, you'll notice that the major political flare point in the West these days is ... immigration. Who cares what happens outside our borders? Our main preoccupation is protecting our borders. Because we are convinced everything outside them sucks.

Re: ‘I witnessed war crimes’ in Gaza – former worker at GHF aid site [video]

#800

Post by Zacharias030 »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #751

I don't really understand how this conflict has been dragged out for so long. It seems like with all the external global support, it should be possible to bring enough world leaders together to hammer out a peace treaty. Current strategies of applying external pressure and protesting appear to be largely ineffective. There's so many people who wield immense power and wealth, but they seem unwilling to take direct act…

True, there is some hesitation deploying sanctions and peacekeeping troops to keep the Israeli state away from starving children.
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