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US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

theguardian.com

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Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not but the constitution vests him with all executive power. This is broad. It's also a co-equal branch. The inferior courts don't even need to exist. Congress can dissolve them at any time. It's a gross violation of the separation of powers for a district court to enjoin executive action.

> The inferior courts don't even need to exist. Do you mean to say we can have a functional judiciary with only a supreme Court to rule on everything?

All I'm saying is that all inferior courts exist at the pleasure of congress. They can remove all power and force all the district and appeals court judges of power and put them effectively into retirement. The only thing that congress cannot do, without impeachment, is lower or remove their salary.

"The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The Judges, both of the supreme and inferior Courts, shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour, and shall, at stated Times, receive for their Services, a Compensation, which shall not be diminished during their Continuance in Office."

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#792
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is that for the most part average americans agree with the elite. The results of the study are driven by the fact that when elites and average americans disagree, the politicians tend to side with the elites. The case when everyone agrees doesn’t tell you anything. It’s only when people disagree that you can find who has actual power and in this case the general public has effectively zero actual meaningful power d…

Yup. Two things can never happen: 1) General labor strike 2) General rent/bill strike Either one results in an immediate liquidity crisis/credit crunch and the delegitimizing/insolvency of most institutions. The beginning of the COVID pandemic was, essentially, this. I would add in "general bank run", but I imagine that they just... wouldn't let that happen. Ironically, an emergency "injunction" against withdrawals.

Wouldn't a general rent strike look like the Eviction Moratorium of 2021?

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#793
post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re conflating two different points: what’s true in reality, and what voters thought they were voting for. Trump’s platform is aimed at people who don’t understand that deficit spending leads to inflation. (It didn’t under Reagan or Bush.) Or, alternatively, they thought there was trillions of dollars of fat in the budget that could be cut without affecting services they want. It’s like how Democrats think you can…

Things are kept vague so people can create their own narratives. But in 2024 he continued to used terms like “Drain the Swamp” that directly refer to downsizing government. So your argument is basically he had no intention of carrying though when he’s doing exactly what he said he would. Perhaps you may want to rethink what exactly you are basing that assumption on. As to Democrats it’s not a hand wavy standpoint. Hi…

> But in 2024 he continued to used terms like “Drain the Swamp” that directly refer to downsizing government.

In this context, "drain the swamp" refers to downsizing the Democrat-voting civil service. It's chiefly an objection to the fact that, even when a Republican wins, the actual government is controlled by people who hate Republicans and try to undermine the elected administration's policies.

RCP has Trump at 45% approve, 51% disapprove, which is where Obama was for much of his second term. Biden was significantly below that for all but two short periods after 2021. So if people voted for Trump thinking he'd cut Social Security and Medicare and now are disappointed about it, it's not showing up in the polling.

> As to Democrats it’s not a hand wavy standpoint.

It's totally unmoored from reality. The 2022 deficit was $1.4 trillion. The total income of people in the top 1% that year was $3.3 trillion, and they paid $560 billion in income taxes: https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-in....

You could double the federal tax burden on everyone from Facebook program managers up to Mark Zuckerberg and not come close to closing the deficit, much less making room for universal healthcare and free college. But "we'll have generous government services and the rich people will pay for it" is the same sort of innumerate fantasy as "we'll build a wall and Mexico will pay for it."

Every European country today pays for its welfare state with heavy, broad-based taxes on the top 60%. If you're telling people that you can have a European-style welfare state without European-style middle classes taxes, then you're in RFK Jr. anti-vaxxer levels of denying reality.

> ~Half of federal revenue came from companies in the 1950’s today it’s vastly lower.

It was never more than about 30%, during World War II and immediately thereafter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_taxation_in_the_Uni.... It was back below 20% by the mid 1960s. But it's 2025, not 1955. The U.S. doesn't have the leverage to tax trans-national corporations the way it did when Europe's economy was obliterated by World War II.

The massive reduction of corporate income tax as a source of tax revenue has happened across the entire developed world.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my reading and understanding, they still can, it just involves an _immense_ amount more paperwork. The ruling is basically that judges can only provide injunctions for the named party in a case, not universal injunctions. So instead of one injunction, each person impacted by the EO will have to file for their own injunction. Which will likely be granted due to similar injunctions already granted. So it reads to…

Not all people affected by an EO have an equal opportunity to generate that paperwork. Going to court or getting involved in the legal system have costs, of both time and money. Not something all people have enough of to spare.

Ahh, I mistakenly thought some form of public defenders were appointed in deportation cases. The free lawyers I’ve seen must have been from non-profits.

That is indeed a big issue.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you win in lower court you can still bring the case to the Supreme Court to create national uniformity. One of the consolidated cases for Brown vs. Board of Education won in Delaware while others lost. That is the appropriate way to determine national uniformity in law.

IANAL, but IIUC (and I many be wrong) if there is no controversy (e.g., competing precedents in multiple jurisdictions) there's nothing to litigate. Moreover, assuming that the "winner" of a case has gotten "relief," they no longer have standing to sue. That said, the issue at hand doesn't include a decision on the merits of a case, but rather what the scope of a Preliminary Injunction (PI)[0] might be. In the exampl…

If litigants receive relief through a PI, it addresses their specific harm. Extending it nationwide may be unwanted if other jurisdictions have different views on the policy. The Supreme Court’s ruling ensures relief is tailored to the parties or district, preventing a single district judge from dictating national policy.

While federal law applies uniformly, reasonable people and courts can disagree on controversial issues. Localized PIs allow diverse judicial input and foster a broader dialogue before a final ruling.

Court shopping for nationwide injunctions, common in cases like Obama’s DACA or Trump’s policies, lets one judge halt national policy…

Affirming a democratically elected executive’s mandate, Obama with DACA or Trump with immigration reforms is reasonable and respects the separation of powers.

IMO Congress needs to act more effectively, passing clear laws on issues like immigration to reduce reliance on executive orders and judicial battles.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#796
post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was a concern noted by the dissent. That said, the procedure here is to just use class action lawsuits to get nationwide injunctions. The opinion explicitly notes that it is an option. And today there was a big flurry of people amending their complaints to do just that.

I actually have some insider info on this. While it sounds like in theory all you have to do is take your existing lawsuit and add the additional step on certifying your class, that option isn't available for the vast majority of legal challenges. In the history of the ACLU they have had less than ten cases where they could have been converted into a class action. As a real life example the "trans women being moved t…

> As a real life example the "trans women being moved to men's prisons" case isn't eligible to be made into a class action.

Can you explain this statement in greater detail?

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#797
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we’re rendering people to El Salvador, there’s no reason some ICE bounty hunter can’t grab you in Massachusetts, and dump you in some Home Depot parking lot in the Carolinas.

Would this not be by residency? If you are a Oklahoma resident, then do either of those states matter?

No, you need to be in the specific judicial district to be protected until there’s a class action suit with an injunction.

This is all a joke anyway. There’s no real rule of law. This is a game to extract more power.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#798
post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things are kept vague so people can create their own narratives. But in 2024 he continued to used terms like “Drain the Swamp” that directly refer to downsizing government. So your argument is basically he had no intention of carrying though when he’s doing exactly what he said he would. Perhaps you may want to rethink what exactly you are basing that assumption on. As to Democrats it’s not a hand wavy standpoint. Hi…

> But in 2024 he continued to used terms like “Drain the Swamp” that directly refer to downsizing government. In this context, "drain the swamp" refers to downsizing the Democrat-voting civil service. It's chiefly an objection to the fact that, even when a Republican wins, the actual government is controlled by people who hate Republicans and try to undermine the elected administration's policies. RCP has Trump at 45…

Look at “drain the swamp” from the man himself, here it covers what you said but also involves a direct reduction in the size of government: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/2025/01/pres...

> The total income of people in the top 1% that year was $3.3 trillion, and they paid $560 billion in income taxes

3.3 trillion * actually paying the current top tax 37% is an additional ~700 billion in revenue or roughly half the nominal deficit. I don’t think making the effective tax rate 37% vs nominally 37% is particularly unpalatable. (We can also quibble about the income definition used but that’s a separate issue.)

So 50% from wealthy + 50% from companies doesn’t seem ludicrous on the surface.

However actually balancing the books nominally means inflation on the 37T national debt is effectively paid off each year. That 700 ish billion @2% in ‘hidden’ revenue meaning just from wealthy tax payers we are breaking even in real terms. Debt then shrinks with growth in the overall economy.

> It was never more than about 30%

Corporate income taxes are only one category. Companies pay tariffs and fees etc. Ultimately all taxes are coming from individuals or organizations which is a meaningful distinction due to foreign stock ownership. When created half of payroll tax came from companies as essentially a tax on workers the other half reduced employe paychecks. Every time they increased the rate the same thing happened where employe paychecks shrank by half the increase.

Excluding 1/2 of payroll from corporate taxation actually makes the reduction in their tax burden much larger. This is really bad for the US population because of foreign owners.

> The massive reduction of corporate income tax as a source of tax revenue has happened across the entire developed world.

Lobbying works. However, companies do still pay quite a bit in taxes and can be forced to pay significantly more. Asian countries for example get about double from corporate income tax vs OECD. It’s a political choice not some impossible goal. https://www.oecd.org/en/data/datasets/global-revenue-statist...

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ACLU Lets not forget the ACLU has burnt 100 years of goodwill to become the bad guys in the past decade. They went from from amazing freedom fighters to lets hope their organization gets destroyed because of the awful humans they let in internally in recent times. I understand there is a split with an old guard still fighting to get it back, but they will lose. > "the cruelty is the point" read that EO Helps if you…

Mind providing a link to more info about your first claim about the ACLU?

There's two main claims that you see when it comes to the ACLU losing its way. The first one is that they don't really do second amendment cases. Some of the motivation is genuinely the conscience of the people who work there, but the much much bigger factor, because the ACLU takes on lots of conscience testing cases, is that the NRA is extremely well funded and will fight the case anyway. There's already an organization laser focused on that issue and is legislatively successful, they don't need the ACLU lawyers' help. More broadly people see the ACLU taking on more "left wing" cases, and this is largely for the same reason. If you have limited resources then you end up having to focus on the cases where there aren't other organizations with legal expertise to step in. And despite what conservative media will tell you, there aren't actually all that many people defending, say, the lgbt. Lots of organizations will show their disapproval of these laws and make a lot of unproductive noise about them, but when it comes time to actually put up money and lawyers to fight them, all the hands stay down.

The second claim is their handling of covid. And the thing is this is an interesting case study for the ACLU. One of the things that people expect from organizations is devotion to a set of principles, and that the organization will die on any hill involving them. And Covid was a situation in which they had to ask themselves whether or not dying on their hill was the right thing to do even if they were wrong. Not wrong in sense that they are defending the "bad people," they do that all the time, but that this is a situation that is genuinely exceptional and that the health and safety of the nation is more important than people's individual civil liberties. And if you turn up the severity of the pandemic I personally think it is fairly obvious that this would be the right choice. It's a hard thing to look at ideals that you have dedicated your life and career to and weigh them against people's lives. Where the controversy lies is how severe you think covid was and whether that severity crossed the threshold. And if you didn't the ACLU's actions look like an arbitrary betrayal of their core principles.

Re: US Supreme Court limits federal judges' power to block Trump orders

#800
post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What penalty is there for continuous “errors”. Let’s say a judge was known to always apply an injunction for a certain party, can they be penalized or removed? If I become biased or incompetent at my job I’m eventually get fired but do judges ever?

Judges can be impeached

Yeah but can they be sued for rulings they made in their capacity as a judge? Could we throw in jail Supreme court justices for making the Dred Scott v. Sandford decision if they were still alive?
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