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Googler... ex-Googler

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Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#791
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. But contracts here usually have a set termination time, with a minimum notice time typically required by law, dependent on how long you've been hired at the company. Tends to be one month for below a year, three months beyond a year. As in after a termination there's a period during which you're still supposed to work and collect the salary. Exceptions are B2B contracts (but they still often have one of…

Out of curiosity, why "bastard"? ...if you're being terminated, isn't the best possible outcome that you get your salary but don't have to go to work?

Do you guys not even get the chance to send a goodbye mail to colleagues?

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#792

I really was just a fuckin cog in a mega corp. Yep. One of the most unfortunate realities of modernity. Your managers, or your managers managers, or their managers don't care about you. At all. If you ask them on the weekend, they'll decry that the things they are asked to do are horrible. but they'll still do it. Some gladly. They are themselves cogs in the machine. A machine that goes all the way to the executive c…

This reminds me of the demotivator with pictures of cogs.

> Just because you are necessary doesn't mean you are important.

https://despair.com/cdn/shop/files/worth_6b813282-f9f8-41ab-...

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#793
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> low eu salaries implies finding job is hard. fact. Does it? Sounds more like an opinion than a fact to me.

If there was demand the salaries would rise. It's capitalism.

Umm... output. Outside of hyperscalers and probably the tier below them, most EU tech companies aren't making the kind of money per headcount to justify huge salaries.

There is demand for tech workers, but the output of EU tech companies can't afford huge salaries. Lower margins.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can afford housing and child care in the US you don’t care about healthcare because you are probably on a good employee plan.

Jee sounds like a swell arrangement for 20% of the population ...

More like 80%. Americans are simply richer than Europeans.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#795
post #110

Layoffs are a difficult thing for employees and their managers. I have seen people (one was a VP of Engineering) escorted out of the building, sent in a cab to home along with a security guard (this was in India), not allowed access to computer or talk with other employees. But, recently have had a very different experience. The current company I work for announced 30% layoffs. The list was made public within one hou…

Google is just really bad at this, but seems to think it's not bad at this. It's sad since there is no excuse for it - plenty of companies conduct regular layoffs and role eliminations in more compassionate ways, it would not take much to survey and learn from their practices. Hell, IBM was often more compassionate about layoffs than Google. Some of it they've tried to become more formal about in ways that actually m…

> Google is just really bad at this, but seems to think it's not bad at this.

That is a very charitable way to look at it, when I worked their I started from that point as well. "Hey, this thing you just did, you did it really badly, can we workshop some ways to not do this so badly in the future?"

And yet, again and again they would do something similar again and still do it badly. As the examples piled up, I was able to have more pointed and more direct conversations with the executives tasked with doing these things. After a year or so, the evidence was pretty conclusive, it was neither that they didn't think they were bad at it, they didn't care.

There have been a lot of conversations on HN about how "managing" at Google was warped by the fact that their search advertising business was a freaking printing press for money. So much that billions of cash was generated every quarter that they just put into the bank because they didn't have anything to spend it on. There have been lots of discussions about how that twists evaluations etc.

What has been less discussed is that tens of thousands of people applied every week to work for Google. It is trivial for a manager to 'add staff' just pull them out of the candidate pipeline of people who have accepted offers. Tell HR^h^h People Operations to keep "n" candidates in the pipeline to support 'attritional effects' of management decisions. And blam! you get new employees with a lower salary than the ones you lose to attrition. It was always better to fill an open slot with a newer, cheaper, employee than to transfer one whose job/project/group had just been deleted. Always. Management explicitly pushed hard on the messaging of putting everything in the wiki because it was helpful that firing someone didn't lose any institutional knowledge because that knowledge was already online in the wiki.

As a result, it was ingrained in the management culture that "you can always replace people so don't feel bad about firing them" and "incremental revenue improvement or incremental cost reductions are not promotable events."

Google leadership spends money to create illusions for their employees to maximize their work effort, much like a dairy spends money to keep their cows milk production up. And like the dairy, they don't get too attached to any one cow, after all there are always more cows.

Argyle, the author, had their belief system completely invalidated. That is traumatic, always will be. Google's leadership doesn't care, Google's belief system is that there is already someone in the 'hired' pipeline who costs less than can do any of the things Argyle might do, or has done, and they are cheaper. So yeah, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While possibly a traumatic experience for Adam, I fail to see the significance of this beyond anecdotal level. And I find it rather odd to argue that after all Google did and didn't do that this is what is causing disillusionment with Google. By now Chrome is basically just a Trojan Horse with advertisement and surveillance for this purpose hidden in the inside.

I think the OP explained the broader significance very well: If Google is firing one of the most successful and active web developer relations people they have, it suggests a strategic downgrade of the Chrome, the web, and engagement in human developers. That's bad news for anyone who builds for the web or who relies on it as an open platform for the dissemination of information and software. I think the position you…

> If Google is firing one of the most successful and active web developer relations people they have, it suggests a strategic downgrade of the Chrome, the web, and engagement in human developers.

A layoff is not firing. If Google is doing layoffs, they'll intentionally choose good performers so they can demonstrate it was done for purely economic reasons. Otherwise they get legal issues.

Besides that, Google may not trust its own performance metrics well enough to use them. The VP might assume the director is lying about who's important etc.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#797

> Just like that. These statements always catch me a bit off-guard. Is there no such thing as a cancelation period in the US? When my employer wants to kick me out, he needs a good reason for that and I'd still be paid for 3 months. Which is often even longer, depending on how long you belong to a company. Edit: I'm in germany

> Edit: I'm in germany Yeah, Germany is quite (in)famous for this. I have seen quite a few times in my career large US tech corporations specifically choosing not to open a satellite EU sales office or a dev office in DE because of the horrendous labor laws. Sure, very nice for the workers. But foreign money chooses to skip DE because of this. Warm and comfy in a sinking ship, great!

If you asked them about it though, they'd say the labor laws were excellent and the American labor law is horrenous. It's about perspective, but let's face it - America is way more set up for innovation than any other Western country.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#798
I just find this very sickening. On one hand, Google laid him off and best excuse I can think of is, "reduce operational expense". On the other hand, they happily paid $32 billion dollar for Wiz where the both fonder net around $3 billion dollar.

I don't know guys but there needs to be some crackdown on this bull that is going on with corporate America. Something feels really off lately with these tech companies on how they make excuse and get away.

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"because with monopoly services they can hire 3x the number of developers at 3x the rate of other firms and shackle them with tools and processes that make them 1/3x as productive and survive" So, this i'd take issue with. I agree on the overall attitude for sure. But some of the data here is just very wrong. Google can't hire 3x the number of developers at 3x the rate. It hasn't been able to in probably a decade. At…

> But by any objective measure, the tools make Google's developers wildly productive, That’s the thing, they might be winning all the productivity battles there are (and I genuinely believe that they do, on top of great tools Google employs good-enough programmers to make use of those tools), but at the same time they’re losing the general war. Because, with rare exceptions, the last war Google the company won when i…

And if you believe that, @DannyBee's productivity isn't real.

Or maybe it's a business problem that Google shares with Microsoft, Facebook and Apple.

Microsoft has struggled to find any new products that will really move the needle in terms of revenue but they support their old customers with enduring loyalty while making the occasional absurd-but-bold move like Windows 8 and sticking to businesses that seem to make no sense like XBOX.

Facebook is the captain of cringe, not cool, but at least they're investing big in VR as a platform. They subsidize great rigs for Beat Saber because Zuckerberg will never forgive himself if he gives up and somebody else succeeds. [1]

Apple will never find a product as big as the iPhone. To do so they've have to make an iCar or iHouse or skip Starship and go straight to O'Neill Colonies. At least they are indisputably the best at what they do and they can occasionally take a hopeless shot at someone else's turf (Vision Pro) feeling justified that the only rival platform has a trashcan for a logo.

Google has trained us all that anything new from Google has a shelf life less than day old bread. They go at new projects as if they a startup that didn't get into Y Combinator or like the kind of company that Marissa Mayer starts these days [2] -- they don't realize part of the special opportunity of being a huge company like that with an absurd valuation is you can do really big, audacious, and irrational things.

[1] I learned for myself how dangerous this attitude is but all I could do was max out my HELOC.

[2] see https://sunshine.com/ not to put it down, I might be involved in something like that if I wasn't doing what I am doing

Re: Googler... ex-Googler

#800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how they're bad at this from start to end. Most of these comments talk about the "end" part, but don't forget: Google has a notoriously laggy hiring process with extreme delays and an unacceptably high level of silence on important issues from recruiters. I have been ghosted so heavily from recruiters TWICE at Google when I was literally telling them "Hey I have offers from $x and $y and I need to decide in 2 w…

Totally unrelated, but I was once contacted by an Amazon recruiter and sent him my resume. He called me to discuss my experience, one of which mentioned that I worked in an environment where my team managed "30,000+ servers". He took the opportunity to say something along the lines of "that's irrelevant, that's smaller than one datacenter in one of our regions". I honestly have no idea why the recruiters from these p…

One positive thing I heard from Amazon folks is that everyone there is honest that they hate the company and hang there only for moneys. Both ICs, their managers, and managers of their managers. At least no hypocrisy.
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