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TikTok goes dark in the US

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Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#791

Post by quotemstr »

moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

> Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power

Control of information is not a legitimate function of the state. The only real reason to ban TikTok or any other platform is establishing control over narratives, and the government must never in a free society put a thumb on the scale of ideas.

So what if the Chinese can boost this message or that message? Is our society so fragile it'll fall apart if people are exposed to the wrong ideas?

The TikTok ban is awful not because TikTok is great, but because it's the state arrogating power to control what's in people's minds. It was no right to do that!

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#792

Post by rayiner »

mcherm wrote: post #766
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

An an American, I also find it outrageous. In fact, as I understand it, our most fundamental law (the Constitution) clearly guarantees "freedom of speech and freedom of the press" which specifically means that the government may NOT shut down a particular publisher because the government does not like what they say, or who it is that owns them. Unfortunately, our Supreme Court unanimously disagrees with me about what…

> shut down a particular publisher because the government does not like what they say, or who it is that owns them.

I don’t see where that’s in the constitution.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#793

Post by dayvid »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

It's not just broadcasting of info, it's having information on your location, contacts, comments, biometric data, etc. It's the reason why the military banned it first. It can definitely be a national security threat.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#794

Post by Aerroon »

chpatrick wrote: post #742
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

I think it's totally reasonable when it has massive influence over your population and is controlled by a geopolitical adversary. The EU banned Russia Today (correctly in my opinion) and that was nothing compared to TikTok. Propaganda isn't free speech.

So, principles don't matter anymore? It's all about whose side you're on? Because I think all those "unfree" countries think the same thing.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#795

Post by jedimastert »

I feel like a lot of these comments not understanding the sentiment are not looking at this in the context of what is going on in the US. The other alternatives people are suggesting are openly manipulating public opinion and stifling speech to serve their own interests at the detriment of the rest of US public.

Books are being banned, the defunding of the department of education is an explicit goal at the incoming administration.

The fact that Americans may or may not be incredibly susceptible to propaganda is a direct consequence of national public policy over the last few generations at least, and it's going to get much worse

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#796

Post by kaoD »

CryptoBanker wrote: post #751
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

So is it fine when China does it, just not when the U.S. does it?

It is never okay, but the rest of the world (and sensible Americans) sees it as hypocritical when the land of the free does it.

The US government should just go ahead and say it like it is: they'd like to hold as much power as the Chinese government does, and they're taking the steps to do so.

The American oligarchy feels threatened because the empire is crumbling under their feet, so they're finally taking their masks off.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#797

Post by hackerknew »

wilg wrote: post #148
AirMax98 wrote: post #98

It's a shame that it's come to this. I feel that all arguments that TikTok is unhealthy or spyware and bad for our general public are valid, but the same arguments also apply to Instagram/Twitter/Whatever. Rather than have some sort of further regulation for what data any application can collect and present to Americans, we've just brought the hammer down on the millions of people that use this application for their…

None of those arguments are the salient one, which is that a geopolitical adversary has control over a major influence vector on US public opinion. They could simply have divested.

I do not use TikTok so maybe I do not understand, but how does TikTok influence its users? I thought content comes from other users. Does TikTok decide which content to promote? And if so, what exactly are they promoting that is threatening to the United States?

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#798

Post by GuB-42 »

gdubs wrote: post #224

I think a lot of people on here never spent much time on TikTok and it shows. It wasn't just for young people and it wasn't all brain rot. There were vibrant communities, subcultures. Real issues were aired there. Real people connected. From the early days of Covid it provided a window into a broader world.

It is not so different from the US-based social networks: Instagram, YouTube, Facebook, etc... Both for the good and for the bad.

And I think most people here understand that.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#799

Post by banku_brougham »

moviet wrote: post #695

(Perspective from an American) Information is the gold of the 21st century. Whoever controls the flow of information has all the wealth and all the power. Therefore, data is the greatest currency in the world. This outcome was never intended to happen, but ByteDance is taking a chance that the American government will relent. We’ll see in a few months who wins the stalemate. TikTok has an immense amount of cultural p…

I fear our govt more than Chinas. Just put CSPAN on in the background for a while. Our government's north star is war.

Re: TikTok goes dark in the US

#800

Post by rapnie »

atomicnumber3 wrote: post #765
bakuninsbart wrote: post #725

As a European, I find it quite outrageous to demand a company be sold to the US because it is too successful and valuable to be foreign-held. It is the old-school imperialist school of thought. If you think Bytedance is harming Americans, despite following american law, then amend the rules for social media companies. Or at least be honest enough to say: "The free market is great, but only if we hold all the cards".

>amend the rules I dunno. I wouldn't say the EU has done an amazing job of actually twisting companies arms enough to get them to a) provide the actual fucking product, not some bastardized version that's intentionally bastardized to make people voluntarily keep using the evil version, AND b) not be evil. At the same time. Look at apple with the payment shit. They managed to do neither a NOR b! The data privacy stuff…

> I wouldn't say the EU has done an amazing job of actually twisting companies arms enough

It takes a lot of time to open political eyes, break through lobby barriers, and get sufficient awareness on the deep issues. Then it takes an age - in business terms - for governmental action and regulation to follow. But if that is ramping up inertia builds and prolonged policy follows, hopefully as unstoppable tide. Other than some decent government regulation and old-fashioned unfair competition protection there's talk talk talk and not much that restrains Big Tech and the maddened billionaire class.

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