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TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#791

Post by culi »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #761
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. If China allowed fully uncensored American social media to operate in China I’d had zero issue letting them do the same in the US. But the CCP wants to have their cake and eat it too. Fully repressive social media lock downs and censorship for their citizens but exploiting the west’s values of free speech and debate.

To be clear, it's not just that China won't let Western websites operate uncensored as businesses within China targeting the Chinese market. It's also that people within China can't access the foreign websites and apps (without using a VPN), because China's Internet firewall blocks that access! That's what makes it an incontrovertible ban! Even if a company has no interest in operating as a business within China in t…

On the other hand, the reason these bans are in place have very specific origins. Facebook for example refused to provide Chinese authorities with information on domestic terrorists in 2009. Facebook has never pulled that off in a western country.

Meanwhile TikTok has worked very hard to work with authorities in the US for pretty much any of their demands.

I don't support any of these bans but I don't think its fair to equate these.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#792

Post by TulliusCicero »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #84
palata wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. I find it very interesting that we tend to criticize China for their protectionism, but as soon as something out-competes US companies, it gets banned: Huawei, DJI, TikTok. Of course it cannot be said like this, because "free speech" and "democracy", so the official reason is "national security".

well china does it too with google,fb etc back then, and other nation do it too albeit not outright banned it all together but sometimes they prefer homegrown company/technology

> albeit not outright banned it all together

No they absolutely do just ban them.

It's not just that Google or FB can't operate Chinese-specific sites as a business within China, from within China you can't even get to the foreign/international versions of those sites, because they're blocked by China's firewall. Wikipedia has a whole list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_websites_blocked_in_ma...

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#793

Post by culi »

MetaWhirledPeas wrote: post #747
stonesthrowaway wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> tiktok goes out of its way to abide by US laws and still were banned I'm guessing they decided there was no effective legislation Tiktok couldn't weasel around via loopholes, deception, or some combination of the two.

What legislation are you talking about? They've been extremely transparent about their business through this whole process. They've been asked to do things no other companies are asked to do and they still abide

I'm not a fan of TikTok but its silly not to see the bias here

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#794

Post by mint2 »

randomcatuser wrote: post #540
doctorpangloss wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US citizens do not want this Ha ha, I guess you are discovering, many many people do want this.

The users for sure don't want this. Among non-users, I'd say there's a sizable difference (let's say 50/50)... Many things aren't that democratic when you look at it like that!

Of course the users don’t want it. Asking a fanbase if the thing they are a fan of should be banned and ignoring all other groups doesn’t make much sense. Nothing would be banned.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#795

Post by culi »

paxys wrote: post #222

Anyone remember when they were in school and adults tried to ban access to a popular website? I imagine this ban will go down exactly the same. Never underestimate a bored teenager's ability to bypass tech restrictions. Heck maybe this is what is needed to finally get a new generation out of the comforts of their tech walled garden and get their hands dirty.

All they're really banning is the app on the App or Play store basically. Anyone who still has tiktok on their phone can continue on and even make a new account. Anyone who cares enough can probably get a cracked APK too

TikTok will probably die slowly not suddenly

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#796

Post by culi »

I_AM_A_SMURF wrote: post #467
ergonaught wrote: post #366

US citizens do not want this. Every news article descending into tangents on any other point than that is part of why we can't have nice things. The whole country has turned into some sort of lower primate improv troupe where whatever stupid thing comes up gets a "Yes and let's" diversion instead of an adult in the room standing up and cutting the crap.

We certainly _do_ want this. I think the fact that we let a foreign company own a social media platform in the first place is preposterous. As others have said, we would never let the CCP own a TV broadcast, why should we let china own a major social media platform? That's just absurd.

If we don't want this then we simply won't make an account on those platforms...

YOU want this ban and you don't like that OTHER PEOPLE like TikTok. Clearly you don't have a TikTok account and that's not enough. You want to make sure no one else is allowed to have a TikTok account either

Instead of spreading the message about possible harms you'd rather ban other people's abilities

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#797

Post by pdx6 »

Here's the lesson: We need our social media platforms to be distributed and out of the hands of any government to promote sharing knowledge and creating peace.

When the mass Tiktok exodus tsent Red Book [1] to the top of the App store, it was the first time in history that American citizens started talking directly to Chinese citizens in mass. I've heard all sorts of stories of both sides learning a lot about each other, including the lies and propaganda each others government places in the media, but mostly more positive things like art, fashion, cooking, food, healthcare and -- probably the most important, each other's different humor.

Video, and an AI algorithm to drive the For You page, is probably the most difficult part. We have some good ideas on privacy[2], and I can imagine some sort of crypto ledger system paired with AI learning, but video expensive to store/stream and at such a high volume of streaming, I don't know what kind of end points would really work to keep quality up.

Then there's the problem of policing such a system, and who the police would be. There's some dark places on the internet that I think everyone but a handful of people think should never be allowed on such a network, but more generally there's questions on politeness, stalking, harassment, "facts", memes, and other culture differences that would need to be ironed out.

Who's building this? We need it by Jan 19th, 2025.

[1] Not to be confused with SF's Redbook: https://www.wired.com/2015/02/redbook/

[2] Tim has been making the rounds about his Solid project: https://www.inrupt.com/

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#798

Post by [deleted] »

fullshark wrote: post #595
bearjaws wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> TikTok has such a culture of authenticity and realness I must live in another universe because it all feels fake.

It's where the young kids who don't know any better overshare. Instagram is where the perfectly manicured young adults put out a phony facade to make their money.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#799

Post by kyle_grove »

donatj wrote: post #18
pjc50 wrote: post #6

The migration app of choice appears to be .. xiaohongshu, or "little red book". I'm guessing this won't last since it wasn't intended to have lots of Westerners using it and neither government is going to be happy with that scale of unfiltered contact between ordinary Chinese citizens and US citizens. In the meantime, it's the place for Luigi Mangione memes.

As a casual observer, I don't understand why YouTube Shorts isn't the obvious successor? The UI is better than TikTok ever was and a lot of the most popular creators are already mirroring their content there?

I think in part because of YouTube demonization, which is how TikTok could poach the creators in the first place.

I suspect if they're mirroring content to YouTube, it's more to try to attract audience to TikTok than monetize through YouTube.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#800

Post by tcmart14 »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #439

I'm tearing my hair out... how is the solution here not just better data privacy laws? Doesn't that solve all the issues, both domestic and international?

Because better data privacy laws would be bad for American companies for collecting the same data.
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