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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

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Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#791

Post by pdabbadabba »

beezlebroxxxxxx wrote: post #667
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English isn't my first language, but isn't "appears to be" inconclusive? It is or it isn't, "appears to be" is still too vague for my liking.

"Appears to be", in English, generally means "on first look/glance." It runs very close to "I believe such and such." If I asked you for an answer to a math question, then you showed me the answer with how you got there, on a very quick glance I might say: "That appears to be correct." It could mean they've seen more evidence to make that assessment, or are basing that assessment on the same evidence we have. Regardl…

This is right. But I'd add that the fact that the speaker is the German defense minister adds an additional layer of meaning. Ordinarily such a person would not be expected to give such an initial assessment without careful consideration.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#792

Post by FrustratedMonky »

pelasaco wrote: post #683
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Lot of Russian Apologist. Russia invades Ukraine -> It is Biden's fault, he ordered it. Russia actually invading and killing -> It was NATO's fault for discussing admission. Like, Russia is actually 'doing the bad things'.

> Like, Russia is actually 'doing the bad things'. Yes, Russia is doing bad things.. But do we really need or want a third World War because of it? It’s not Ukraine’s fault that Russia invaded, but Ukraine bears responsibility for having been so corrupt over the past 20 years and for being irresponsible given its proximity to Russia. We still don’t know how much of the aid sent to Ukraine is being lost to corruption.…

What would Reagan have said to this?

"USSR, why bother pushing back, not my problem, can't I just go to the mall and hang out?"

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#793

Post by madaxe_again »

belter wrote: post #579
staplung wrote: post #63

It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figur…

"Germany’s defense minister says damage to 2 Baltic data cables appears to be sabotage" - https://apnews.com/article/germany-finland-baltic-data-cable...

I suppose in today’s world it’s hard to know what was sabotage and what was an accident, and where the buck stops - particularly in marine matters. Was that anchor drag intentional? Did the operator know their charts were out of date? Did that trawl net really fail and snag like that?

We’ll go around in circles until it’s irrelevant.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#794

Post by detritus »

toss1 wrote: post #723
pitaj wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there not cables run through the Channel Tunnel? Seems like a no-brainer.

Yes, there is fiber infrastructure in the Channel Tunnel [0]. I'm pretty sure that while any one good link is vastly better than zero links, no one link is sufficient to carry all traffic from/to the British Isles? [0] https://www.colt.net/resources/colt-successfully-completes-t...

If you're routing through the Chunnel, I suspect you could fit at least two seperate links.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#795

Post by detritus »

toss1 wrote: post #5

Substantial Russian activity also near UK, raises concerns that Russia would cut off UK. [0] Russian ships ‘plotting sabotage in the North Sea’ [1] [0] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-undersea-... [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ships...

The silly thing is they know entirely well that we can do the same to them. The US/UK at least have at least the same capability, if not moreso.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#796

Post by simion314 »

coldtea wrote: post #774
dralley wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reflexive cynicism about the military isn't as warranted in 2024 as it might have been a decade ago. And it wasn't really warranted a decade ago either, when Russia was blowing up Czech ammunition depots, airliners full of Dutch people, conducting assassinations in the center of Berlin, and sending "little green men" to Ukraine. It could be an accident, sure, but suspicion of sabotage is not paranoia. And also, like,…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#797

Post by vlan0 »

trollied wrote: post #655
amelius wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have some kind of time-of-flight system that can find out exactly where a cable damage occurred, the instant that it occurs?

This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread-spectrum_time-domain_re...

I think you mean C-OTDR?

https://www.anritsu.com/en-us/test-measurement/products/mw90...

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#798

Post by autokad »

MasterYoda wrote: post #491
staplung wrote: post #63

It's worth mentioning that cable breakages happen quite often; globally about 200 times per year [1] and the article itself mentions that just last year, two other cables and a gas pipeline were taken out by an anchor. The Gulf of Finland is evidently quite shallow. From what I understand, cable repair ships are likely to use ROVs for parts of repair jobs but only when the water is shallow so hopefully they can figur…

The last time it happened, the Russian ship had also been seen unnaturally going back and forth over the cable where the damage occurred. These damages do not happen by themselves. Considering the current international situation and the fact that it happened in a short time in several places unnaturally in a limited region, the Baltic Sea, you have to be very naive if you do not see this as probable sabotage.

well, we did blow up their pipeline, so not like we didnt open the salvo for making international resources fair game

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#799

Post by wbl »

Wytwwww wrote: post #326
stackskipton wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely aware, used to be involved in this stuff. In international waters, these are UNCLOS requirements to board a ship not of your Navy Flag. (a) the ship is engaged in piracy; (b) the ship is engaged in the slave trade; (c) the ship is engaged in unauthorized broadcasting and the flag State of the warship has jurisdiction under article 109; (d) the ship is without nationality; or (e) though flying a foreign…

> Which one would you like to use to board and/or force the ship to depart against Russian cable cutting ships? High seas (which is what that list applies to) is not the EEZ. I don't think anybody could legally argue thar a country wouldn't have the right to board (or fire at, if it didn't comply) a foreign ship from it's coast 24 nautical miles if it suspected it was doing something illegal. Whether that right exten…

The EEZ only applies to resource extraction. Otherwise, it is the same as high seas. What lets you board is the territorial sea, and outside that, the contiguous zone. Even then there are limits.

Re: Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

#800

Post by ethanholt1 »

I dislike the immediate jumping to “war, sabotage, destruction!” that happened in this article. Cable breakage happens quite often, and sometimes are caused by such menial things as sea debris, or at times, sharks chewing on them [1].

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissacristinamarquez/2020/07/...

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