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Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

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Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? A common complaint by outsiders is that Netflix uses microservices. I'd love to hear exactly how a monolith application is guaranteed to perform better, with details . What is the magic difference that would have ensured the live stream would have been successful?

I am one of the ones who complain about their microservices architecture quite a lot. This comes from both first-hand experience of talking to several of their directors when consulted upon on how to make certain systems of theirs better. It's not just a matter of guarantees, it's a matter of complexity. Like right now Google search is dying and there's nothing that they can do to fix it because they have given up co…

> they want to be associated with "Faang" and yet their product is not really technology based.

You lost me. Netflix built a massive CDN, a recommendation engine, did dynamic transcoding of video, and a bunch of other things, at scale, quite some years before everyone else. They may have enshittified in the last five years, but I dont see any reason why they dont have a genuinely legitimate claim to being a founder member of the FAANG club.

I have a much harder time believing that companies with AI in their name or domain are doing any kind of AI, by contrast.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#792

The way to deal with this is to constantly do live events, and actually build organizational muscle. Not these massive one off events in an area the tech team has no experience in.

I have this argument a lot in tech. We should always be doing (the thing we want to do) Somme examples that always get me in trouble (or at least big heated conversations) 1. Always be building: It does not matter if code was not changed, or there has been no PRs or whatever, build it. Something in your org or infra has likely changed. My argument is "I would rather have a build failure on software that is already re…

There should be a caveat that such this kind of decision should be based on experience and not treated as a rule that juniors might blindly follow. We all know how "fail fast and early" turned out (or whatever the exact phrase was).

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? A common complaint by outsiders is that Netflix uses microservices. I'd love to hear exactly how a monolith application is guaranteed to perform better, with details . What is the magic difference that would have ensured the live stream would have been successful?

I am one of the ones who complain about their microservices architecture quite a lot. This comes from both first-hand experience of talking to several of their directors when consulted upon on how to make certain systems of theirs better. It's not just a matter of guarantees, it's a matter of complexity. Like right now Google search is dying and there's nothing that they can do to fix it because they have given up co…

You can explain these problems with simple business metrics that technologists like to ignore. Right before the recent Twitter acquisition, the various bits of info that came to the limelight included the "minor detail" that they had more than doubled their headcount and associated expenses, but had not doubled either their revenue or profits. Technology complexity went up, the business went backwards. Thousands of programmers doesn't always translate to more value!

Netflix regularly puts out blog articles proudly proclaiming that they process exabytes of logs per microsecond or whatever it is that their microservices Rube Goldberg machine spits out these days, patting themselves on the back for a heroic job well done.

Meanwhile, I've been able to go on the same rant year after year that they're still unable to publish more than five subtitle languages per region. These are 40 KB files! They had an employee argue with me about this in another forum, saying that the distribution of these files is "harder than I thought".

It's not hard!

They're solving the wrong problems. The problems they're solving are fun for engineers, but pointless for the business or their customers.

From a customer perspective Netflix is either treading water or noticeably getting worse. Their catalog is smaller than it was. They've lost licensing deals for movies and series that I want to watch. The series they're producing themselves are not things I want to watch any more. They removed content ratings, so I can't even pick something that is good without using my phone to look up each title manually!

Microservices solve none of these issues (or make it worse), yet this is all we hear about when Netflix comes up in technology discussions. I've only ever read one article that is actually relevant to their core business of streaming video, which was a blog about using kTLS in BSD to stream directly from the SSD to the NIC and bypassing the CPU. Even that is questionable! They do this to enable HTTPS... which they don't need! They could have just used a cryptographic signature on their static content, which the clients can verify with the same level of assurance as HTTPS. Many other large content distribution networks do this.

It's 100% certain that someone could pretend to be Elon, fire 200-500 staff from the various Netflix microservices teams and then hire just one junior tech to figure out how to distribute subtitles... and that would materially improve customer retention while cutting costs with no downside whatsoever.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#794
How is this not a solved problem by now?

I think this is a result of most software "engineering" having become a self-licking ice cream cone. Besides mere scaling, the techniques and infrastructure should be mostly squared away.

Yes, it's all complicated, but I don't think we should excuse ourselves when we objectively fail at what we do. I'm not saying that Netflix developers are bad people, but that it doesn't matter how hard of a job it is; it was their job and what they did was inadequate to say the least.

Jonathan Blow is right.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#795

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

You are basically saying, everybody who criticizes Netflix now has no clue.

That’s a bold claim given that people with inside knowledge could post here without disclosing they are insiders.

Is that some kind of No True Scotsman?

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#796
Technical issues happen, but I wish they would've put up a YouTube stream or something (or at least asked YouTube to stop taking down the indie streams that were popping up). It seems like basically their duty to the boxers and the fans to do everything in their power to let the match be seen live, even if it means eating crow and using another platform.

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#797

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

The only time I worked on a project that had a live television launch, it absolutely tipped over within like 2 minutes, and people on HN and Reddit were making fun of it. And I know how hard everyone worked, and how competent they were, so I sympathize with the people in these cases. While the internet was teeing off with easy jokes, engineers were swarming on a problem that was just not resolving, PMs were pacing up…

Some breaks are just too difficult to predict. For example, I work in ecommerce and we had a page break because the content team pushed too many items into an array, that caused a back-end service to throw errors. Because we were the middle-service, taking from the CMS and making the request to back-end, not sure how we could have seen that issue coming in advance (and no one knew there was a limit).

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#798

Every time a big company screws up, there are two highly informed sets of people who are guaranteed to be lurking, but rarely post, in a thread like this: 1) those directly involved with the incident, or employees of the same company. They have too much to lose by circumventing the PR machine. 2) people at similar companies who operate similar systems with similar scale and risks. Those people know how hard this is a…

[flagged]

Re: Netflix buffering issues: Boxing fans complain about Jake Paul vs. Mike Tyson

#799
Live streaming is hard. Most companies that do live streaming at 2024 scale did it by learning from their mistakes. This is true for Hotstar, Amazon and even Youtube. Netflix stack is made to stream optimised, compressed , cached videos with a manageable concurrent viewers for the same video. Here we had ~65m concurrent viewers in their first live event. The compression they use, distribution etc have not scaled up well. I'll judge them based on how they handle their next live event
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