Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

storage.courtlistener.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

791–800 of 848 posts

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#791

Post by account42 »

tptacek wrote: post #129
doctorpangloss wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know, it doesn’t take a genius or a law degree to understand that maintaining a one to one ratio of physical copies to digitally lent books is the same shit as a regular library but more convenient. It stands to reason that the law shouldn’t preclude technological advances that make libraries more convenient. The reason traditional libraries aren’t threatened by the law is cultural. There are states that ban…

Judges aren't anti-library. People care a lot less about "compsci" culture than "compsci" people think they do. We simply aren't that important.

What does this have to do with compsci culture? Do you think only technical minded people can be interested in access to digital content?

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#792

Post by account42 »

xdennis wrote: post #702
tptacek wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem is that the preceding analysis is a category error, in that it assumes the law has a purpose of minimizing the circulation of an individual book. It does not, which is why traditional libraries weren't threatened by it.

> in that it assumes the law has a purpose of minimizing the circulation of an individual book That's exactly what it's about. Publishers lost the battle of banning libraries, but have won and keep winning everything about digital books. The end effect is that people have fewer liberties when it comes to digital things. Authors don't gain much. All the profit goes to the publishers.

And the next step is to deprecate and stop publishing physical prints at all, which is already mostly the case with other kinds of media. Then you won't just have less rights with digital things but less rights period.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#793

Post by account42 »

protocolture wrote: post #475
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hope the organization can survive Maybe it shouldn’t. There is value in asking if there is a better home for those projects.

Maybe a European country that gives much less shit?

EU in general is not better when it comes to copyright law. Some countries (e.g. Germany) are decidedly more pro-copyright holder than the US.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#794

Post by account42 »

mdp2021 wrote: post #519
7bit wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe is not a third world country, where nobody gives a shit. It has laws and regulations like the US. Educate yourself.

It can easily have much better laws.

It can but when it comes to copyright, many EU countries are not better at all.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#795

Post by account42 »

gigel82 wrote: post #609
ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

I also have a personal gripe with the Wayback Machine; there is absolutely no way to get something removed once they archive it (despite the data including accidentally leaked PII for example - which can cause actual harm to someone). Not only do they ignore robots.txt, they ignored all emails sent to info@archive.org from the actual domain in question which I owned, with a link to a URL on the domain asking them to…

> It took me 2 years and working with a lawyer friend to draft a DMCA request to finally have them remove the content.

It took you two years and a lawyer to literally fill out a form?

If anything, the IA removes too much content and should only do the minimum required by law (and fight it even there where possible).

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#796

Post by account42 »

istanbullu wrote: post #571
ilamont wrote: post #52

This has been playing out for many years. And it's all because Brewster Kahle decided that an overly broad interpretation of the Internet Archive's mission trumped the rights of authors and publishers, and the laws of the United States. When IA was asked to stop CDL - many times - he continued. The National Writers Union tried to open a dialogue as early as 2010 but was ignored: The Internet Archive says it would rat…

The Internet Archive should just relocate to a less authoritarian jurisdiction. It would solve the problem.

Which jurisdiction do you have in mind? Russia? China? There are few others that don't have similar copyright laws to the US or won't bend quickly to US demands.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#797

Post by account42 »

IshKebab wrote: post #742
jandrese wrote: post #45

Very much not a surprise. I think the Internet Archive is providing an invaluable service to humanity in preserving works that would otherwise be lost to time. it is one of the crown jewels of the Internet, doing a job that nobody else is willing to do. But at the same time I know the courts side with publishers pretty much every time and copyright law being such as it is they're totally screwed. The only real questi…

> But at the same time I know the courts side with publishers pretty much every time and copyright law being such as it is they're totally screwed. I mean... they did just scan a load of in-copyright books and then let anyone download them with no restrictions. What did they think was going to happen? I think you have to be particularly extreme and naive to think that would have been ok, legally or morally.

Sharing information is always morally OK. It's copyright itself that is a severe infringement to our right of free speech without a good enough reason to justify that.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#798

Post by account42 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #432

Things will get worse before they're get better, but ultimately the publishers will pay dearly for this. First, the IA should move to a more favorable copyright jurisdiction to preserve the collection. Second, there's no point fighting the copyright lobby, especially so in the US. We need to build an alternative access to knowledge that bypasses the copyright/ownership of knowledge paradigm.

> First, the IA should move to a more favorable copyright jurisdiction to preserve the collection.

Which jurisdiction do you have in mind? Russia? China? There are few others that don't have similar copyright laws to the US or won't bend quickly to US demands.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#799

Post by account42 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #572
zelphirkalt wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also abolish copyrights for software in general and for everyone, including the tech giants.

We could, but is that the best alternative? Despite everything I've said here until now I'm not against creators receiving fair recompense for their efforts. What I'm against is the enormous inequity in copyright law which seriously disadvantages consumers. I believe it is not in the best economic or strategic interests of the nation for such inequity to exist—in fact, I reckon it's very damaging. Solving the copyrig…

> We could, but is that the best alternative?

Yes, absolutely. Insiting on business models that depend on scarcity when that scarcity doesn't actually exist is absurd and the costs to society are astronomical.

> Despite everything I've said here until now I'm not against creators receiving fair recompense for their efforts.

No copyright doesn't mean no copensation, it just means that compensation cannot be enforced on a per-copy basis. Creative works, including for-profit creations, have existed long before copyright.

But let's also not pretend that creators receive fair compensation today.

Re: The Internet Archive has lost its appeal in Hachette vs. Internet Archive

#800

Post by account42 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #459
grecy wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the IA should move to a more favorable copyright jurisdiction Ask the team at The Pirate Bay or Kim Dotcom how that worked out for them. The US WILL pursue it's copyright laws to any country on earth.

It's hardly been successful with China (but I'm not advocating it as a solution).

That's because Chinese copyright infringement is mostly internal. You don't see sites protected by China distributing copyrighted content to the rest of the world.
Post reply on HN