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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#791

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #783
toofy wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lately when i see arguments like yours one thing keeps popping into my head. i’m not sure how i feel about the following yet but it’s been on my mind a bit for the past couple of years: if someone is incapable of making good faith genuine attempts to mitigate against atrocious things happening openly in the property they control, then isn’t this fairly solid evidence they’re just not capable of owning that property?…

"The property" you mean the council housing where all the ganging, killing, raping and terror plotting occurs, right? Sure, the administration of said council should be jailed ASAP.

It is indeed completely illegal to own a property where illegal activities happen, know it and do nothing about it in France. Reporting the issue to the police is an adequate step. And yes, people have been jailed for owning apartments where terror plotting happened. Thank you for this good exemple.

For the good of the discussion, I would however appreciate if you kept your baseless fantasies about council housing - which is both numerous and very safe in France, a country which tries to do something to mitigate poverty - out of it.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#792

Post by miki123211 »

lukan wrote: post #771
hnpolicestate wrote: post #728

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…

"Why do you want your country to have access to your private thoughts and opinions? " Anyone who does not want that, should stay away from Telegram in the first place - an app that stores all your private messages unencrypted for the company to read. All your interactions on any channel ever - all their data. All this is about is sharing that data with the western governments. The russian government already has it fo…

> The russian government already has it for example.

With the situation in Ukraine being what it is, wouldn't they be cracking down on Telegram usage in their country if this were true? They don't seem to be doing so, and the usage seems to be quite high.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#793

Post by stavros »

V-2 wrote: post #775
unsupp0rted wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you want your country to control what you can see, read or say? No no, I want my country to control what other people can see, read or say. Not me: I'm a good person.

Nothing to hide, nothing to fear : )

When everything is illegal, nobody is innocent.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#796

Post by stavros »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #762
TeMPOraL wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don’t see “the West” whatever that means go after WhatsApp, Signal or Matrix. That should tell you something. WhatsApp is a good corporate puppy of the West; Signal is a crazy nothingburger that recently burned its reputation by going into cryptocurrencies; Matrix, like with all FLOSS, has approximately zero users and is way under the radar of authorities. Still, you do occasionally see talk and moves against t…

[flagged]

TeMPOraL is Polish.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#797

Post by toofy »

Ray20 wrote: post #772
toofy wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lately when i see arguments like yours one thing keeps popping into my head. i’m not sure how i feel about the following yet but it’s been on my mind a bit for the past couple of years: if someone is incapable of making good faith genuine attempts to mitigate against atrocious things happening openly in the property they control, then isn’t this fairly solid evidence they’re just not capable of owning that property?…

According to this rule, approximately 100% of officials must be thrown out of their jobs right this second. I think you are mostly correct about irresponsibility, incompetence, and excuses, but I don't see why there should be legal consequences for people who did not take on any obligations. Especially in the situation, when people who take on, like all officials, have no responsibility

it’s still a bit muddy why he was arrested, but it seems like it’s due to his constant dismissal of any responsibility.

i’m not sure of the specifics of what you mean by 100% of officials must be thrown out” but if im understanding what you’re implying, i disagree, most land owners, elected officials, capable owners of organizations take meaningful or genuine good faith efforts to address open corruption in their spaces . and if they don’t, then yes, why wouldn’t we hold them responsible?

it seems like you’re indicating there should be no consequences for people who don’t take on obligations…

> i don’t see why there should be legal consequences for people who did not take on any obligations.

of course they take on obligations, it’s partially why we pay executives so much because they’re taking on obligations. this isn’t some pauper struggling to pay rent on his studio apartment—he was arrested after traveling from one country to another in his private jet.

again, i haven’t spent much energy on the implications from effect iteration of this but we have pretty solid evidence of what happens when we allow these wannabe kings to claim they should have nothing but positive personal benefits while externalizing any negatives onto the rest of us.

“you should pay me obscene amounts and treat me like a king while i take no responsibility whatsoever” is absurd. and we’re seeing the cascading effects of this absurdity in real time.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#798

Post by exceptione »

timeon wrote: post #109
chucke1992 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort But that's what exactly they want no? EU is literally implementing a regulation that will allow to "circumvent end-to-end encryption to address child sexual abuse material". I believe it failed to pass recently, but they will try again - and nothing stops countries to implement it independently. I think France is th…

> EU is literally implementing a regulation Does it?

Nope. There was a proposal pushed by corporate lobby groups that got shot down.

The EU usually takes 3 steps forward, 1 to 2 steps backwards.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#799

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

foverzar wrote: post #349
mc32 wrote: post #117

It’ll be interesting to see if the likes of Marlinspike, Firefox, EFF, etc., rally to support this guy. It’s really chilling to see the steps EU gobs are taking against free speech. In some ways they seem more authoritarian than even China and Russia. It’s like “free world” is becoming a farce.

Large geopolitical powers are all the same. It's only people who live there that are convinced they are doing better than those other guys. Yes, that includes people from Russia, China or the US believing they are the ones who are truly free, and everything else are totalitarian shitholes. Each one of them is even kind of right in their own regard.

> Large geopolitical powers are all the same.

No, they are not.

Nobody in Europe disappears for six months because they have offended the government before mysteriously reappearing like in China. No one dictates single handedly what’s going to happen without any form of oversight like in Russia.

Heck France currently has an interim government because they voted out the previous one and the US had a decisive election coming in a few months.

The people who want to convince you otherwise generally have a vested interest in undermining democracy and pushing for a form of autocracy.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#800

Post by miki123211 »

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #753
rfoo wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevents people from using Signal or Matrix to distribute drugs, besides serious usability issues?

Signal or Matrix don’t openly advertise channels next to you selling drugs from directly inside the application. Telegram does. The “people nearby” feature is literally “find me a dealer close by”.

It's also really easy to integrate with as a developer, the bot API is genuinely one of the best and easiest-to-use APIs I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with.

From what I'm hearing through the grapevine (from people who actually use Telegram for this), some of the dealers on there actually use bots to take your order / address. You can't really do this on any other messaging app, at least not easily.

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