Every group is cultish nowadays. God forbid if you have your own opinion anymore.
The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
791–800 of 824 posts
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#792I'm surprised that the definition of 'community' he uses here so strongly revolves around a shared identity and activity, and that what is shared is what defines a community. For one, I don't really think communities where people share the same interests or ritual really does the trick, otherwise so-called YouTube 'communities' or Twitch stream 'communities' or even strangers you play games with online would be all t…
Actually kids are much happier in homogenous communities. Being the lone white kid in a black/Hispanic community would cause nonstop low level stress
There are other variations besides 100% and 99.99%.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#793What a load. See https://www.techdirt.com/2024/04/22/jonathan-haidts-book-the...
You might need to be more specific. The author attributes different conditions.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#794Earlier quoted context omitted.
The majority of people lived in villages until 1920 in the US. US birth rates started dropping off not a generation later.
I mean, there was also a depression, a world war, and the increasing availability of birth control. That factoid doesn't mean much on its own.
I would agree with the parent on this:
The transition away from communities where kids had autonomy, regualr access to adult-free spaces and also easy access to a wide variety of adults - the loss of all that massively increased parenting time and resources, from a few hours per week to 24/7 adulting.
Modern young parents now how to replace many diverse and experienced adults and impossibly simulate the autonomous and independent spaces where kids learned interpersonal and problem solving skills.
The closer we got to this, the less people wanted to have kids.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#795Earlier quoted context omitted.
They're not wrong. Late stage capitalism sucks, but the alternative systems out there seem to lead to mass starvation or total collapse. People have been lifted out of poverty worldwide as well. Some kind of balance seems necessary.
The welfare states of Western Europe and the Nordic countries seem much better than America's system of late stage capitalism and they have not lead to mass starvation or total collapse. Likewise, America's economy seemed to be much more healthy when it had a more active/successful labor movement.
I'm not sure if the current success of Norway can be replicated everywhere. It has a small population living off a state oil fund that has something like $300k/person.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#796One big change I've noticed between growing up in a small town and now where I'm in my mid 40s in a big metro city in India is increased "transactional" nature of interactions of my daily life. Back then we had a deeper ties with all those who served us by which I mean vegetable vendor, carpenter, doctor, knife sharpener, cloth shop, grocer, baker and so on. Whenever we interacted with them it would be a small chit-c…
I don't really agree. I live in a big city in Spain but I know the local bakery girls where i get my morning bread (they always keep a loaf of my favourite apart), the 2 Indian guys in the mini mart next door often accept packages for me, the staff in all the clubs I visit know me really well and always give me a hug when I come, I always have a chat with the lady in the bigger supermarket I frequent, etc. In fact most of my interactions are not just transactional. Only those with taxi drivers etc. The restaurants I visit frequently all know my preferences. The old guy with his antique workshop down the road often offers me a can of beer while we sit and have a chat. I absolutely do feel part of the community. And I live in a big city center.
Maybe in India things are different but there it's not like that at all. Ps As you mentioned people asking about your son getting married, one thing I noticed is that the focus on marriage in India is very strong, some of my coworkers in Bangalore who are from smaller villages are pretty much disowned if they don't get married by the age of 23. I know when I was 23 I was just backpacking around the world and enjoying life, not thinking about babies or families. In fact I never did get married and I'm almost 50.
I think that pressure would take its toll too. Young people like to be free and don't want to be tied down. It certainly made some of my coworkers there very stressed with the pressure because they just wanted to go clubbing. One friend's parents didn't even know she had a boyfriend for years. There seems to be a huge disconnect there between generations.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#797Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article indeed makes that argument. But from a functional perspective it just isn't true, virtual communities have replaced physical ones. I also think it sells short the attractiveness of these digital communities. A digital community can be something where you spend many hours a day, with the same people, where the connections are just as important as your connections in real life. It isn't just dating apps, Fa…
> the attractiveness of these digital communities > where the connections are just as important as your connections in real life That's the problem statement: these degenerate images of real communities are attractive and they become important despite being incomplete and ultimately crippling. It's exactly analogous to junk food which is attractive and which becomes "important" to the people addicted to it even as it…
I strongly disagree that online spaces can't be fulfilling. A private, invite-only discord server with a couple layers of core-member regulars, friends-of-friends, and miscellaneous passerby is a compelling substitute for joining something like the Oddfellows or Masons. In the server I hang out in, 2 people have met their spouses, a handful formed romantic relationships, and most everyone has made at least a few lasting friendships.
If that's "degenerate", what's your definition of a meaningful social space?
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#798Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the attractiveness of these digital communities > where the connections are just as important as your connections in real life That's the problem statement: these degenerate images of real communities are attractive and they become important despite being incomplete and ultimately crippling. It's exactly analogous to junk food which is attractive and which becomes "important" to the people addicted to it even as it…
I strongly disagree that online spaces can't be fulfilling. A private, invite-only discord server with a couple layers of core-member regulars, friends-of-friends, and miscellaneous passerby is a compelling substitute for joining something like the Oddfellows or Masons. In the server I hang out in, 2 people have met their spouses, a handful formed romantic relationships, and most everyone has made at least a few last…
It sounds like you and your friends run a very nice online neighborhood, that's terrific and I don't mean to detract from that.
I'm pointing out the enormous difference in bandwidth between online and in-person interaction. It's difficult even to estimate the orders of magnitude!
Online interaction can be a healthy adjunct to a healthy social life. It's when online interaction replaces in-person interaction that we evidently get a mental health crisis.
> what's your definition of a meaningful social space?
Thanks for asking. I would start with Christopher Alexander's "Pattern Language" et. al.[1] and add in applied ecology (i.e. Permaculture, Greenway[2])
The idea being if the neighborhood is comfortable and full of life the meaningful social relations should hopefully follow. (And if not, at least you're comfortable and well-fed and not causing anybody any problems.)
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#799The articles thesis on loss of community plays a role but has always existed in some context depending upon the individuals location. The primary cause (in my opinion) of the youth mental health crisis and falling happiness rates was the introduction of the smart phone. Blaming social media is a clever cop out, it's the actual device and inability of people to stop looking at it. Totally abnormal to human life. Will…
> Totally abnormal to human life. Which era of our history might best reflect "normal" human life?
It's not a binary normal/abnormal question. Smartphones triggered a rapid, extreme, and long duration shift in attention away from physical reality.
Imagine taking a person today and forcing them to use virtual reality for the average amount of time one looks at a smartphone over a 24 hours period.
You would see an even greater loss in overall happiness, increase in mental illness etc . We're evolving much too fast. The mind can't keep up. So it falls apart.
Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community
#800I’m so glad it’s finally happening but also it’s wild to me this conversation feels like it’s just beginning. The Anxious Generation book seems to have been what was needed for people to see what, to me anyways, was common sense and actually question their silly iPad at 6months old parenting styles. As it’s picking up steam, I’ve been hearing stories recently about how our local “school district decided to ban phones…
>He won’t have a phone until he drives, or maybe just a basic flip phone if we think we need a communication line to reach him when he’s a bit older.
Your kid is going to be so alienated from the other kids...