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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

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Re: Panic at the Job Market

#791

Post by CM30 »

bmitc wrote: post #281
UncleOxidant wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While tough, it's often a good thing for the applicant as a natural filter. If someone can't hire well, it's not a good place to work. But for people like the guy who wrote that article, eviction eventually becomes a problem. And so many companies can't hire well right now that in a market with declining openings he might not be able to wait for a company that can hire well.

That is definitely true. And a lot of the jobs are jobs that the person would do well in, but the employers don't bother to see it. I know there are jobs that I would have done extremely well in, but the companies were just black boxes. They just sit around being unproductive while they wait for someone to check some arbitrary checkboxes. It'd be like trying to hire a farm hand but instantly reject them because they…

The big problem seems to be that whatever hiring filters are being used for jobs now are completely broken. You can have a CV and history that exceeds the requirements of the job (based on the description) by miles, yet end up either ghosted or given a simple form based rejection letter.

Meanwhile you can apply to a role where you meet maybe one of the requirements, and then wind up with an interview. It's completely backwards, and makes me suspect that whatever system is being used to filter out applications simply doesn't work. That either the recruiter sorting them or the AI system being paid for is somehow doing worse than random chance.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#792

Post by knallfrosch »

mypastself wrote: post #746
munificent wrote: post #304

I didn't read the article but if I'm looking at the initial graph right, it looks like software engineering job postings are higher today than they were before the pandemic. Obviously, they were higher during the pandemic, but that was a blip. It seems that after that, they're still in a better state then they were before.

I wonder if companies are now more likely to keep those postings open despite not actually hiring. I’m personally (and of course anecdotally) aware of a number of such cases.

Open job postings have no downside to the company, but a lot of upside:

- You can tell overworked employees that reinforcements are due soon. - You can tell the government to ease visa requirements to increase your worker supply (so you can pay lower salaries) - You signal (to the market, your employees and applicants) that you're a successful company in need of talent at literally no cost.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#793

Post by badpun »

williamDafoe wrote: post #459
jldugger wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have many friends (in Europe) EU kind of in a recession though. And there's a well known link between interest rates and unemployment. So it's really not surprising to hear that employment in the EU is harder after the ECB raised rates. And good news: they're lowering them now. What really needs explaining is why, despite the unusually strong general US job market[1] for several years now, the US tech market spec…

Three reasons for techmageddon right now. (1) USA had a boomer savings bubble 2010-2022 with boomers in the peak savings years of their lives, resulting in the lowest interest rates in a century, never to return, (2) Covid19 created a work from home and therefore tech bubble, pulling lots of demand forward, (c) IMHO after a decade of lies from FAANGs about how easy it is to get a $200k salary, and how easy it is to s…

Weren't high turnover rates at FAANGs largely due to people job hopping to other FAANGs for even higher salaries?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#794

Post by trashface »

mypastself wrote: post #746
munificent wrote: post #304

I didn't read the article but if I'm looking at the initial graph right, it looks like software engineering job postings are higher today than they were before the pandemic. Obviously, they were higher during the pandemic, but that was a blip. It seems that after that, they're still in a better state then they were before.

I wonder if companies are now more likely to keep those postings open despite not actually hiring. I’m personally (and of course anecdotally) aware of a number of such cases.

Its not just a "now" thing, been going on for at least 20 years and probably longer. I worked all my career at small companies and generally there was little to no interviewing for any of our so-called "open positions". The last company I worked at was in a defacto hiring freeze most of the time I was there; for about 2 years I was the last IC hire they had made, and some people left too. The whole time we had multiple open positions advertised. We did cycle through a few contractors which seemed all that management was interested in.

So I don't know what bigtech does, but smalltech just seems to use open positions to signal "we're healthy" or just forget they even have them out there.

And population is growing all the time so that will make new openings positions too, but it doesn't necessarily translate into higher percent employment.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#795

Post by cchi_co »

giantg2 wrote: post #560
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

"If someone can't hire well, it's not a good place to work." But nobody hires well, so where can I work?

[dead]

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#796

Post by FooBarWidget »

Rury wrote: post #598
jldugger wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have many friends (in Europe) EU kind of in a recession though. And there's a well known link between interest rates and unemployment. So it's really not surprising to hear that employment in the EU is harder after the ECB raised rates. And good news: they're lowering them now. What really needs explaining is why, despite the unusually strong general US job market[1] for several years now, the US tech market spec…

> What really needs explaining is why, despite the unusually strong general US job market[1] for several years now, the US tech market specifically has been seeing layoffs and hiring freezes It's very simple (hyperbole): When borrowing money costs nothing (interest), who cares if your business makes anything - money or not, just borrow more money at 0% interest to cover your expenses, or get investors to give you the…

> When borrowing money costs nothing (interest), who cares if your business makes anything

What? You still need to make a profit in order to pay back loans you know. You just need to make less profit, but you still need profit.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#797

Post by cchi_co »

crawfishphase wrote: post #737
bmitc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

some companies do know how to hire and how to train. its rare- not zero.

[dead]

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#798

Post by aherontas7 »

meroes wrote: post #527
Aurornis wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. I’ve done some mentoring of CS grads for the past few years. We some times get people with unreasonable interview demands, like companies asking them to make an entire app or website for the interview process. We advise them to decline the really excessive ones. However, it’s rare to see tha…

4-5 hours? No assessment should be over 1 hour and 3-4 hours of interviews for most jobs is excessive. I’ve trudged through long assessments. I can’t think of a single one where a better thought out 30 minute one wouldn’t better. No. I’ll tell you EXACTLY what is going on. The long interview and assessments are because jobs don’t train anymore and these unpaid or underpaid hours are the initial training. 3 hours of a…

The main question is how long will this thing continue....Are we going to get back in normal state?

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#800

Post by Etheryte »

voiceblue wrote: post #715
weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

As a Xoogler, I have to say Google isn’t what it once was. You pay for your high salary with the fact that the one thing you can be sure most people you work with care about is how much money they extract out of Google and how they could get more. Taking care of toddlers is ostensibly a better use of the one life you get.

You know that feeling you get when you see a screaming toddler board a plane? Now imagine that's your work, times a dozen, eight hours a day, every day.
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