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Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

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Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#791

Post by mattmaroon »

Retric wrote: post #766
_giorgio_ wrote: post #761

Can't be toxic culture if everyone wants to work there, and if 95% of people threatened to fire themselves to follow him. It's toxic be a board member and to write a research paper spilling trade secrets of the company that you work for. Maybe that's why the CEO doesn't talk to you about product launches anymore.

> 95% of people threatened to fire themselves to follow him. That sounds extremely toxic on its own. Think about it for a second, someone went around asking people to sign their name on a document threatening to quit if he was fired for cause. Would you be comfortable if this was happening at your job?

If I were going to work for someone I would prefer to work for a person who is so beloved by his employees that they’d rather quit than not work for him, absolutely.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#792

Post by tomnipotent »

putlake wrote: post #785

While I am somewhat sympathetic to the board based on what I have read about Altman's behavior pattern (he was allegedly fired from YC for similar reasons of not disclosing conflicts of interest), it is strange to me how thin the board members' resumes are. What notable achievements does Toner have? She's 32 and hasn't really built or run a company. Another board member is the wife of actor Joseph Gordon Levitt. Same…

> how thin the board members' resumes are

This was my takeaway when the situation first came up. Toner has zero experience managing or running a business, and McCauley has a decade-old business with only a few dozen employees. Neither of them scream "strong candidate" for a board position.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#793

Post by bb88 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #775

I feel bad for dang in all this Is like the worst situation for him where despite there really being no causal connection between hacker news and Sam Altman in any kind of functional way, the reality of the connections and the Zeitgeist of the this moment, makes this topic continue to rise to the top and has dominated over the last, let’s say a couple weeks In an odd way because of how close this community is to all…

I don't expect people with lots of money to necessarily have the same views that I might, but it does help if they are honest about their views and actions. I don't really like Marc Andreesen / Chris Dixon these days but at least they're honest.

As to dang, I'm mixed. He can move away from this if he chooses. He'll be missed, but on the other hand, he would have a principled stand on which to leave.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#794

Post by jdminhbg »

n2d4 wrote: post #746
jdminhbg wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On paper the board has the power and it’s their job to monitor and hire/fire the execs. But they’re dependent on the execs for info. It's way worse for the OpenAI board position in this case, because the company is basically just an assemblage of researchers, engineers, and Microsoft Azure credits. They can replace the CEO if they want, but all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it.

> all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it They really can't, because a majority of their compensation is in now-unreasonable amounts of OpenAI equity (because it was worth much less when it was granted). If employees decided to walk away, rendering their vested equity worthless, they wouldn't get anywhere near the same value of, say, Microsoft equity as a signing bonus to make it worth. Any s…

> They really can't, because a majority of their compensation is in now-unreasonable amounts of OpenAI equity (because it was worth much less when it was granted). If employees decided to walk away, rendering their vested equity worthless, they wouldn't get anywhere near the same value of, say, Microsoft equity as a signing bonus to make it worth.

The problem with this is that the board was basically threatening to also make their equity worthless by taking the position that Sam was moving too fast to commercialize the company. They pretty much burned their leverage everywhere possible.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#795

Post by Retric »

mattmaroon wrote: post #791
Retric wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 95% of people threatened to fire themselves to follow him. That sounds extremely toxic on its own. Think about it for a second, someone went around asking people to sign their name on a document threatening to quit if he was fired for cause. Would you be comfortable if this was happening at your job?

If I were going to work for someone I would prefer to work for a person who is so beloved by his employees that they’d rather quit than not work for him, absolutely.

And if everyone individually decided to email the board perhaps we could assume that was the case.

However someone was going around asking them to sign a specific document, which opens up many other possibilities.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#796

Post by pests »

Auracle wrote: post #671
pests wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh okay then we should just dismiss it?

Absolutely. We have a justice system, not mob justice. False accusations happen all the time. I feel like anyone that feels like you have had pretty charmed lives if you've never known the type of person that would do that.

Who brought up mob justice?

Real accusations happen all the time too. Nah, I've been homeless and in institutions, I'm well aware of the types of people out here.

Just saying we shouldn't sweep things under the rug just because the person is a public figure or "has family begging for handouts" or "is at risk of blackmail". We should ensure the proper authorizes investigate and the potential victim is not drowned out by more powerful voices.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#797

Post by nradov »

insane_dreamer wrote: post #672
nradov wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does anyone here care what happens to Twitter? It's just another social network. We have lots of them. Even if Elon Musk bought it just to burn it down, so what? Anyone who cares can build a replacement. And as a casual Twitter/X user who doesn't give a damn about Musk one way or the other, I don't see the sabotage. The web site and mobile app seem to be working fine. Community Notes is great. I understand that a…

I don't care what happened to Twitter now that I'm off it, but having an egomaniac not only owning but actively controlling, answerable to no one but himself, the most important digital public square in the world, is very problematic from a democratic (not the party) standpoint. > Anyone who cares can build a replacement. Technologically, sure; nothing special about it. But in terms of adoption and reach, no, Twitter…

Come on, be serious. Twitter/X has never been the "most important digital public square in the world". Time to get out of the bubble and live in the real world. And while I'm no fan of concentrated media ownership, let's not pretend the previous management was any better: they actively censored and suppressed accurate, legal information in order to promote their favored political narratives. That was equally bad in a different way.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#798

Post by n2d4 »

jdminhbg wrote: post #794
n2d4 wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the value of the company can walk away if they don't like it They really can't, because a majority of their compensation is in now-unreasonable amounts of OpenAI equity (because it was worth much less when it was granted). If employees decided to walk away, rendering their vested equity worthless, they wouldn't get anywhere near the same value of, say, Microsoft equity as a signing bonus to make it worth. Any s…

> They really can't, because a majority of their compensation is in now-unreasonable amounts of OpenAI equity (because it was worth much less when it was granted). If employees decided to walk away, rendering their vested equity worthless, they wouldn't get anywhere near the same value of, say, Microsoft equity as a signing bonus to make it worth. The problem with this is that the board was basically threatening to a…

The board never took that position.

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#799

Post by insane_dreamer »

nradov wrote: post #797
insane_dreamer wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care what happened to Twitter now that I'm off it, but having an egomaniac not only owning but actively controlling, answerable to no one but himself, the most important digital public square in the world, is very problematic from a democratic (not the party) standpoint. > Anyone who cares can build a replacement. Technologically, sure; nothing special about it. But in terms of adoption and reach, no, Twitter…

Come on, be serious. Twitter/X has never been the "most important digital public square in the world". Time to get out of the bubble and live in the real world. And while I'm no fan of concentrated media ownership, let's not pretend the previous management was any better: they actively censored and suppressed accurate, legal information in order to promote their favored political narratives. That was equally bad in a…

- which other social media network was as globally widespread and used for public communication by public and private actors alike the way Twitter was?

- there's a huge difference between a set of executives who are accountable to a board and shareholders, and a single person who is not, and doubly so when that person is among the wealthiest in the world, likes to shoot their mouth off, has a huge ego, and likes to exercise a great deal of control

Re: Ex-OpenAI board member reveals what led to Sam Altman's brief ousting

#800

Post by WalterBright »

int_19h wrote: post #527
WalterBright wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How has Amazon expensed your interests? Most everything I buy, other than food, comes from Amazon. The local supermarket stopped selling laundry powder detergent, so now I push a button on my computer and Amazon drops off a box of Tide the next day. And it's cheaper than what the supermarket used to sell it for, too. Even better - the AMZN stock I bought pays for it! I was looking for an unusual art print the other d…

Amazon customer service is shit. My wife is currently on the fifth round of disputing a charge for a product that Amazon itself asked us to dispose rather than returning it; this after trying to get them to ship the correct product four times (and every time they shipped the wrong one), before she finally gave up and just asked to do a return. Amazon product quality is shit. Fakes are prevalent, half of reviews are f…

I've bought a ton of stuff from Amazon over the years. I haven't found it to be worse than conventional retail stores. Every company is going to have problems of one sort or another.

As for the workers, nobody makes them work there.

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