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Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

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Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#791

Post by JohnFen »

OJFord wrote: post #600
fsloth wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we look at history of innovation and invention it’s very typical the original discovery and final productization are done by different people. For many reasons, but a lot of them are universal I would say. E.g. Oppenheimer’s team created the bomb, then following experts finetuned the subsequent weapon systems and payload designs. Etc.

> If we look at history of innovation and invention it’s very typical the original discovery and final productization are done by different people. You don't really need to look at history, that's basically science vs engineering in a nutshell. Maybe history could tell us if that's an accident or a division that arose out of 'natural' occurrence, but I suppose a question for an economist or psychologist or sociologis…

> that's basically science vs engineering in a nutshell

Right, because those are two very different things. Science is about figuring out truths of how reality works. Engineering is about taking those truths and using them to make useful things.

People often talk in a way that conflates the two, but they are completely different activities.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#792

Post by omeze »

sebastiennight wrote: post #738
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I’m with you on this. Next token prediction does lead to impressive emergent phenomena. But what makes people people is an internal drive to attend to our needs, and an LLM exists without that. A real AGI should be something you can drop in to a humanoid robot and it would basically live as an individual, learning from every moment and every day, growing and changing with time. LLMs can’t even count the number of…

You seem generally intelligent. Can you tell how many letters are in the following sentence? "هذا دليل سريع على أنه حتى البشر الأذكياء لا يمكنهم قراءة ”الرموز“ أو ”الحروف“ من لغة لم يتعلموها."

I counted very quickly but 78? I learned arabic in kindergarten, im not sure what your point was. There are arabic spelling bees and an alphabet song just like english

The comment you replied to was saying LLMs trained on english cant count letters in english

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#793

Post by JohnFen »

fprog wrote: post #594
fsloth wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we look at history of innovation and invention it’s very typical the original discovery and final productization are done by different people. For many reasons, but a lot of them are universal I would say. E.g. Oppenheimer’s team created the bomb, then following experts finetuned the subsequent weapon systems and payload designs. Etc.

Except OpenAI hasn’t yet finished discovery on its true goal: AGI. I wonder if they risk plateauing at a local maximum.

I don't think that their goal is achievable (at least not within any of our lifetimes), so I think that "plateauing" is inevitable.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#794

Post by JohnFen »

tsimionescu wrote: post #648
Zambyte wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious: what do you expect an "AGI" system to be able to do that we can't do with today's technology?

The simplest answer, without adding any extraordinary capabilities to the AGI that veer into magical intelligence, is to have AI assistants that can seemlessly interact with technology the way a human assistant would. So, if you want to meet with someone, instead of opening you calendar app and looking for an opening, you'd ask your AGI assistant to talk to their AGI assistant and set up a 1h meeting soon. Or, instea…

> This would not require any special intelligence more advanced than a human's, but it does require a very general understanding of the human world that is miles beyond what LLMs can achieve today.

Does it? I am quite certain those things are achievable right now without anything like AI in the sense being discussed here.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#795

Post by Zambyte »

Jensson wrote: post #752
HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with severe Alzheimer's cannot learn, but still have general intelligence.

If they can't learn then they don't have general intelligence, without learning there are many problems you wont be able to solve that average (or even very dumb) people can solve. Learning is a core part to general intelligence, as general intelligence implies you can learn about new problems so you can solve those. Take away that and you are no longer a general problem solver.

That's a really good point. I want to define what I think of intelligence as being so we are on the same page: it is the combination of knowledge and reason. An example of a system with high knowledge amd low reason is Wikipedia. An example of a system with high reason and low knowledge is a scientific calculator. A highly intelligent system exhibits aspects of both.

A rule based expert intelligence system can be highly intelligent, but it is not general, and maybe no arrangement of rules could make one that is general. A general intelligence system must be able to learn and adapt to foreign problems, parameters, and goals dynamically.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#796

Post by az226 »

ed_mercer wrote: post #62

How good or bad is this for OpenAI?

Ilya hasn’t been working on core models for a while. He’s been focused on superalignment. That’s good for the world. Since OpenAI is leading/closest to AGI, it’s the best place to work on superalignment.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#797

Post by az226 »

zer00eyz wrote: post #10

I read Sam's Tweet and see "I fired him cause he voted against me"... Im sorry but every time I see Sam speak, or read what he has to say all I can thing is "petulant man child". > ... Ilya is easily one of the greatest minds of our generation > ...Jakub is also easily one of the greatest minds of our generation I'm not calling you a liar sam, but I just dont believe you.

Trust was irrevocably broken. That’s why he is leaving.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#798

Post by vasco »

eggdaft wrote: post #768
vasco wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on what you see as risk. If I can safely earn for 5 years way above national average and build a strong savings egg that can provide income forever. Or I can fail at a startup and be close to zero five years later, the fact that you aren't homeless and starving and can get another job doesn't mean it wasn't risky, you still wasted a bunch of years compared to slow and steady accumulation. I've read the m…

“Wasting years” is not a risk. It’s a choice. And as I pointed out it’s likely not wasted anyway.

Wasting from a savings perspective, come on now.

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#799

Post by nialv7 »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #764
Symmetry wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scenario I have in my head is that they had to override the safety team's objections to ship their new models before Google IO happened.

The "safety" team can go eat grass. I don't believe in AI "safety measures" any more than I do in kitchen cleaver safety measures. That is, nothing beyond "keep out of kids' reach" and "don't use it like an idiot" but let the cleaver be a damn cleaver.

A cleaver isn't going to try to kill you without someone holding it....

Re: Ilya Sutskever to leave OpenAI

#800

Post by mtnGoat »

VirusNewbie wrote: post #777
mtnGoat wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience differs greatly, company I used to work for did NDA, alpha, beta projects with Google. I was always impressed at how little anyone knew, the fact that nothing was delivered on time, scope creep to the point of almost everything being delayed and most projects were not well thought out nor well architected. I warned one API update would break things if it went live, and it did. Why was the guy from anoth…

>company I used to work for did NDA, alpha, beta projects with Google. Sorry, are you saying you worked with Google Contractors or TSEs or something? I don't understand how you'd be working with product SWEs so I don't know what you're quite saying.

When you(and your customers) consume several hundred million dollars a year in services, you get access to a lot of things. These were not contractors, they were on product teams.
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