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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#791

Post by magnoliakobus »

sotasota wrote: post #759
duxup wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

If you ever wondered what it was like to live during the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, well, we are living in the Western version of that right now. You don't speak out during the revolution for fear of being ostracized, fired, and forced into a struggle session where your character and reputation is publicly destroyed to send a clear message to everyone else. Shut Up Or Else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go…

Are you aware that millions of people were murdered during the actual cultural revolution? Honestly, are you aware of literally anything about the cultural revolution besides that it happened?

The Wall Street Journal, Washington Enquirer, Fox News, etc. are all just as allowed to freely publish whatever they wish as they ever were, there is not mass brutalization or violence being done against you, most people I live and work around are openly conservative/libertarian and suffer no consequences because of it, there are no struggle sessions. There is no 'Cleansing of the Class Ranks.' There are no show trials, forced suicides, etc. etc. etc.

Engaging in dishonest and ahistorical histrionics is unhelpful for everyone.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#792

Post by logicchains »

duxup wrote: post #694
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

>How is it someone who is so out of touch with the end user in position to make these decisions?

Maybe it's the same team behind Tensorflow? Google tends to like taking the "we know better than users" approach to the design of their software libraries, maybe that's finally leaked into their AI product design.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#793

Post by logicchains »

magnoliakobus wrote: post #791
sotasota wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you ever wondered what it was like to live during the beginning of the Cultural Revolution, well, we are living in the Western version of that right now. You don't speak out during the revolution for fear of being ostracized, fired, and forced into a struggle session where your character and reputation is publicly destroyed to send a clear message to everyone else. Shut Up Or Else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go…

Are you aware that millions of people were murdered during the actual cultural revolution? Honestly, are you aware of literally anything about the cultural revolution besides that it happened? The Wall Street Journal, Washington Enquirer, Fox News, etc. are all just as allowed to freely publish whatever they wish as they ever were, there is not mass brutalization or violence being done against you, most people I live…

>Are you aware that millions of people were murdered during the actual cultural revolution

Are you aware that the cultural revolution didn't start with this? No successful movement starts with "let's go murder a bunch of our fellow countrymen"; it gradually builds up to it.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#794

Post by kragen »

shagie wrote: post #790
kragen wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

these are pretty badass as images i think; it's only the context that makes them bad the viking ones might even be historically accurate (if biased); not only did vikings recruit new warriors from abroad, they also enslaved concubines from abroad, and their raiding reached not only greenland (inhabited by inuit peoples) and north america (rarely!) but also the mediterranean. so it wouldn't be terribly surprising for…

> (how do the inuit do it? perhaps their diet has enough vitamin d even without sun?) Two parts: First, they're not exposing their skin to the sun. There's no reason to have paler skin to get more UV if it's covered up most of the year. Secondly, for the Inuit diet there are parts that are very Vitamin D rich... and there are still problems. Vitamin D-rich marine Inuit diet and markers of inflammation – a population-…

wow, thank you, this is great information!

do you suppose the traditional scandinavian diet is also lower in vitamin d? or is their apparent selection for blondness just a result of genetically higher vitamin d needs?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#795

Post by bonzini »

layer8 wrote: post #733
khokhol wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. What's striking to me about this fiasco is (aside from the obvious haste with which this thing was shoved into production) that apparently the only way these geniuses can think of to de-bias these systems - is to throw more bias at them. For such a supposedly revolutionary advancement.

That struck me as well. While the training data is biased in various ways (like media in general are), it should however also contain enough information for the AI to be able to judge reasonably well what a less biased reality-reflecting balance would be. For example, it should know that there are male nurses, black politicians, etc., and represent that appropriately. Black Nazi soldiers are so far out that it sheds…

Apparently the biases in the output tend to be stronger than what is in the training set. Or so I read.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#796

Post by FirmwareBurner »

pocket_cheese wrote: post #765
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed. They're trailing 5 or so years behind Disney who also placed DEI over producing quality entertainment and their endless stream of flops reflects that. South Park even mocked them about that ("put a black chick in it and make her lame and gay"). Can't wait for Gemini and Google to flop as well since nob…

Fortune 500s are laughably insincere and hamfisted in how they do DEI. But these types of comments feel like schadenfreude towards the "woke moralist mind-virus" But lets be real here ... DEI is a good thing when done well. How are you going to talk to the customer when they are speaking a different cultural language. Even form a purely capitalist perspective, having a diverse workforce means you can target more mark…

Nobody's is against diversity when done right and fairly. But that's not what Disney or Google is doing. They're forcing their own warped version of diversity and you have no choice to refuse, but if you do speak up then you're racist.

Blade was a black main character over 20 years ago and it was a hit. Beverly Hills Cop also had a black main character 40 years ago and was also a hit. The movie Hackers from 30 years ago had LGBT and gender fluid characters and it was also a hit.

But what Disney and Google took from this is that now absolutely everything should be forcibly diverse, LGBTQ and gender fluid, whether the story needs it or not, otherwise it's racist. And that's where people have a problem.

Nobody has problems seeing new black characters on screen, but a lot of people will see a problem in back vikings for example which is what Gemini was spitting out.

And if we go the forced diversity route for the sake of modern diversity argument, why is Google Gemini only replacing traditional white roles like vikings with diverse races, but never others like Zulu warriors or Samurais with whites? Google's anti-white racism is clear as daylight, and somehow that's OK because diversity?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#797

Post by yongjik »

multicast wrote: post #501

We live in times were non-problems are turned into problems. Simple responses should be generated truthfully. Truth which is present in today's data. Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male, almost all US rappers are black and male, most childminder and nurses are female from all kinds of races. If you want the person to be of another race or sex, add it to the prompt. If you want a software engineer from…

> Most software engineers and CEOs are white and male

Fine, you walk up to Sundar Pichai, Satya Nadella, and Lisa Su and say those words. I'll watch.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#798

Post by JumpCrisscross »

wtepplexisted wrote: post #789
JohnMakin wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure people with this take will be totally happy at the "historically accurate" pictures of Jesus then (he would not have been white and blue eyed)

This is how Jesus is described in Islam: "I saw Jesus, a man of medium height and moderate complexion inclined to the red and white colors and of lank hair" Try that prompt in various models (remove the part saying it's Jesus) and see what comes out.

> how Jesus is described in Islam

You seem to be quoting Muhammed's alleged description of Jesus from the Quran [1], per--allegedly--Ibn Abbas [2], a man born over half a century after Jesus died.

[1] http://facweb.furman.edu/~ateipen/islam/BukhariJesusetc.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Abbas

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#799

Post by pocket_cheese »

logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Investors in Google should consider Google's financial performance as part of their decision. 41% increase YOY in net income doesn't seem to align with the "go woke or go broke" investment strategy.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#800

Post by ytx »

Gabriel54 wrote: post #761

It is incredible to me how as humans we are capable of harnessing rationality and abstraction in science to the point that such technology has become possible (think from the perspective of someone 200 years ago, the development of physics & math -> electricity -> computers -> the internet -> LLMs) and yet we are still totally incapable of rationally dealing with our different backgrounds and experiences.

We've got about ~200-2000 years of rationality and ~200k-2m years of "outgroup bad"
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