Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
"Israel is going great lengths to protect civilians." No they don't. They never did.
The pro-Israel information war
791–800 of 1001 posts
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#792Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on "Israeli what". Anti Israeli government: It's not antisemitic. Anti Israeli people: It's antisemitic.
It’s more complicated than that. Criticizing Israeli settlements in the West Bank is not antisemitic. But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing. Both are arguably criticisms of the Israeli government.
> But suggesting that Israel has no right to exist as a Jewish state is antisemitic as it implies ethnic cleansing.
Does it really implies it, or just the end of apartheid?
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#793I appreciate this post not yet being removed. The HN discussion often can contain nuggets of insight which are lacking from the “media”.
The challenge of balancing equity, justice, and personal security, and how conversations around this challenge are positioned is certainly not unique to the conflict in Israel/Palestine. I’d love to hear thoughts about how to have these conversations in ways that will lead to long term growth/positive change…
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#794Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…
> Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. > If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views. That platforms prioritize one over the other is just one possible explanation. An alternative explanation is that more people already have those views. And it's dishonest to present one explanation and omit the other. N…
The simple explanation is that the "Free Palestine" posters just post more. If you look at Internet posts, you'll find a lot of people talking about being vegan, even though vegans are vanishingly rare in real life. Practically every American media outlet that isn't explicitly socialist expresses more sympathy for Israel than Palestine, so people holding contrary views may feel the need to voice them more acutely.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#795Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not sure how all this can be said with a straight face; that you are “pro-israel” you just think the borders should be set back over 50 years and that a democratically elected government’s actions is worse than those of a terrorist organization. Not once did you mention what atrocities were committed on Hamas’s side and instead you spent all your effort justifying Hamas by arguing how you think Lukid is worse. Wh…
They did in fact mention what Hamas did - when they said civilian deaths caused by Likud are an order of magnitude higher. Perhaps they think civilian deaths are intrinsically bad, and don’t feel the need to calculate that one beheading is worth 5 children dead for lack of medical care, or whatever the official rate is? Also, a reminder that Putin and Hamas were also democratically elected, and I don’t see why that h…
There have not been elections held in Gaza in 18 years and Putin’s elections are not considered free and fair - see the arrest of Navalny.
Democratic processes are good because it holds those in power accountable for their actions and should not just be hand waved away as if it doesn’t matter.
And no, what Hamas has done was not mentioned, all that was said was ‘the actions of Hamas’. What actions - did they hold a bake sale? It is unclear and minimized.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#796Pro-Palestinian views outrank Pro-Israeli online by around 36 to 1 on TikTok and 8 to 1 on other online platforms. https://twitter.com/antgoldbloom/status/1721561226151612602 If anything the skew within the platforms is to prioritize pro-palestinian views https://twitter.com/committeeonccp/status/173279243496103143... It also seems like these platforms create (rather than support) anti-Israeli views: https://twitter.…
This conflict (and the press/social media sentiment) seems to be going exactly as planned by both sides of the conflict.
According to Israeli intelligence, Hamas’s primary goal was to cause as much death and destruction in Gaza as possible. The Israeli civilians were just collateral damage.
They needed Israel to over-react and commit so many war crimes that it would force other countries into the conflict, and also get a new generation of Palestinians to sign up for the cause.
Not only did they achieve all their goals, but they did it in one day! They had budgeted for three days of slaughtering Israeli citizens, since they thought it would be harder to force a response. Since they called it off early, they presumably have more resources in reserve than expected.
As it usually goes with these conflicts, Hamas and the Israeli hardliners won on day one, and literally everyone else lost:
The strong anti-Israeli sentiment online will just justify more military investment in Israel, and might even help them use fear to win an election or two.
At the same time, Hamas recruiters can again use rational arguments to get people to sign up.
The frontline of the Israeli military (including many draftees) get screwed, as do all the people that live anywhere near the conflicts.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#797Earlier quoted context omitted.
Take that logic further. Israel's enemies outnumber it by 10x or more and are more than ruthless enough to sacrifice as many as necessary*. There's no way ever that Israel could avoid having the other side having more casualties. The same would apply to every minority. If your suggested law of war isn't 'majority or ruthless minority, get to do everything they want because they have more causalties', than you need an…
I do recall opposition to America’s post 9-11 response based on the same arguments, oddly enough. The current laws of war do not allow, for instance, strikes at medical facilities: Israel’s argument is that they don’t have to follow the laws because Hamas is breaking them.
>I do recall opposition to America’s post 9-11 response based on the same arguments
Very much on the margins if any. The overwhelming consensus ignored these considerations.
>The current laws of war do not allow, for instance, strikes at medical facilities.
This is wrong. Medical facilities can be struck if they are used for war.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/08/504815234...
Moreover, this is not what happened in Gaza - there were raids but not dropping bombs from airplanes, the former being much less destructive.
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#798Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know a lot of Palestinians and they don't have the luxury of avoiding the news because they still have family in Gaza.
A couple of my colleagues are VCs who are in active combat in Gaza as we speak. Another VC I knew lost his daughter in the Nova massacre (or is a hostage - they don't know yet). This VC was very active in the peace process and lobbied a very large tech company we all know to open a large development office in West Bank and Gaza and pay pretty high salaries. I also know a lot of line level engineers and PMs from my pr…
What happened on 10/7 was very tragic and I'm sorry to hear about your friends suffering.
Right now 2 million Palestinians are displaced and, so far, 1% of Gaza's population has been killed by the Israeli army offensive. With many more injured, crippled, psychologically scared.
The saddest part? It doesn't look like this horror will end. Many more will die
No suffering is justified No killing is justified
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#799Some of this information war seems to be intended from keeping the US from considering a third option - sitting this one out. One U.S. State Department official resigned over this when he saw Israel's weapons shopping list.[1] The US could provide humanitarian aid, but not military aid. Cut military aid to Israel. Maybe still provide Iron Dome reloads, but that's about it. Bring in a hospital ship off Gaza, to care f…
Wait until this State Department official finds all the weapons sold to Saudi Arabia
[deleted]
Re: The pro-Israel information war
#800Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
"How do you honestly support people who elected Hamas" Speaking against mass destruction of key societal institutions and infrastructure, mass murder and attrocities, and starvation of Gazans by Israel's government policy in its current military operation against Gaza, is not a high mental bar for giving "support". It's easy to support that. I don't have anything against Jews. But I can see that people in Gaza, being…
On the flip side, Jewish populations have been expelled (or worse) throughout the middle east. Israel rationally fears an unlimited right to return or a single state solution that results in them being demographically swamped. Further, we're talking about radicalized populations that no other neighboring state wants to accept-- Egypt does not want Gaza back. States in the Arab world remembers Black September.
The situation in Gaza isn't stable. Hamas needs to be displaced for any chance at peace. And then, that peace is going to have to take the form of a two state solution where no one gets exactly what they want, and it may have to be a generation away.