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Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

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Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#791

Post by araknafobia »

burkaman wrote: post #660
hooverd wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A customizable form letter would be nice to have, if anyone wants to jump on that. I'm not a great writer in that respect.

My email: Google has proposed a new Web Environment Integrity standard, outlined here: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... . This standard would allow Google applications to block users who are not using Google products like Chrome or Android, and encourages other web developers to do the same, with the goal of eliminating ad blockers and competing web browsers. Google has already begun im…

Thanks for sharing! I just sent to https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/antitrust/contact_en

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#792

Post by PedroBatista »

prmoustache wrote: post #444
PedroBatista wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who has been mismanaged for at least a decade and depends on Google to pay their bills.. I'm a FF user since the early 00's and Firefox will mostly not go away because Google has an interest in using it against monopoly accusations but the reality is bleak.. And the reality is these people ( Google in this case ) are so far removed from any moral compass about the Web ( at least what most people here think of "the We…

> Who has been mismanaged for at least a decade Do you think Google is better managed?

One has a browser that has +60% market share, the other went from ~55% to 3%.

One company dominates "the Web" and pulls these shenanigans all every other year, the other one is totally dependent of the former to pay their bills.

So yeah, Google has been better managed than Mozilla. That doesn't invalidate Google's execs are a bunch of lizards on the now common SV ego trip and screw up all the time, but they can and ensure they can continue to do so, Mozilla is not in the same position and part of blame must be attributed to them.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#793

Post by smoldesu »

meepmorp wrote: post #786
smoldesu wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's part of the KHTML monoculture that has been harming our industry and holding us back from real progress.

That's kind of a stretch.

It's kinda hyperbole, to demonstrate how taut of a claim "Chrome monoculture" is.

We had a shot at open browser engine development with limited scope. Everyone said no, not just Chrome. Mozilla and Apple both have blood on their hands too, if we want to be reductive.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#794

Post by pptr »

Pannoniae wrote: post #225

This proposal is just so throughly user-hostile that it's impossible to criticise it based on technical grounds. It's not a bad proposal, it's a dangerous, evil and malicious one, so criticising it in details is futile. The whole thing in itself is evil, and it needs to be thrown out. Quietly protesting won't work this time, the goal is to kick up a huge fuss which gets the attention of governments, regulatory bodies…

How is this feature hostile to Googles users? There is genuine benefit from websites allowing you to do more things via their website (vs their app). Also: fewer/no Captchas, fewer bots on social media

The platforms most people use will see benefits. Apple users apparently already do.

I understand the argument that the open source experience will get worse. But frankly, google.com will still work for you. It will be other websites that make your experience worse.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#795

Post by hightrix »

hanniabu wrote: post #716
Pannoniae wrote: post #225

This proposal is just so throughly user-hostile that it's impossible to criticise it based on technical grounds. It's not a bad proposal, it's a dangerous, evil and malicious one, so criticising it in details is futile. The whole thing in itself is evil, and it needs to be thrown out. Quietly protesting won't work this time, the goal is to kick up a huge fuss which gets the attention of governments, regulatory bodies…

As someone that isn't up-to-date on WEI, can someone provide a TLDR of what it does and why it's bad?

TL;DR: It is DRM for the web where Google (or others) can only allow specific OS/Browser combination to access a website.

If you want to know more, others have written novels in these comments.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#796

Post by stronglikedan »

hanniabu wrote: post #716
Pannoniae wrote: post #225

This proposal is just so throughly user-hostile that it's impossible to criticise it based on technical grounds. It's not a bad proposal, it's a dangerous, evil and malicious one, so criticising it in details is futile. The whole thing in itself is evil, and it needs to be thrown out. Quietly protesting won't work this time, the goal is to kick up a huge fuss which gets the attention of governments, regulatory bodies…

As someone that isn't up-to-date on WEI, can someone provide a TLDR of what it does and why it's bad?

Not exactly a nutshell, but here's an explainer:

https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/...

And here's why it may be bad:

https://vivaldi.com/blog/googles-new-dangerous-web-environme...

And the HN discussion on the latter:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36875940

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#797

Post by docmars »

signatoremo wrote: post #520
docmars wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this article: "At the same time, Schmidt has been appointed to numerous White House advisory positions, giving him privileged insight into the administration’s policies in technology, science and military defense, as well as unusual access to top policymakers." https://www.techtransparencyproject.org/articles/eric-schmid... A quick Google of "eric schmidt obama" brings up a lot of articles discussing their close…

And that makes him “shadow president” how? Was he the one with the most access as opposed to, says, David Axelrod?

I don't want to put words into the OP's mouth with regards to his assertion about Schmidt, but given the loose wording: "basically shadow president", it's fair to say it isn't meant literally, and it usually comes with a negative connotation and to imply that Schmidt was so deeply involved, from a standpoint of strong biases in favor of Google and the obvious potential for corruption in participating as an advisor to someone (Obama) who doesn't have the same grasp on technology — and the extent and length of Schmidt's involvement throughout Obama's terms.

It could be said that Schmidt disproportionately influenced important decisions in the tech realm, to a degree nearly equal to executive authority, because it presumably (and greatly) outweighs the opinions of the other heads of Big Tech, so long as Obama was naive enough to agree with him on key issues he didn't fully understand.

This is especially damning in light of the NSA / Prism scandal during Obama's term, and Big Tech's involvement and compliance with that.

Of course, anyone could assert this about an advisor to a President depending on the President's level of knowledge and outright willingness to apply their advice, even if in spite of fairness (competition), rights, laws, or precedents.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#798

Post by solardev »

slig wrote: post #767
redavni wrote: post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco salaries and the removal of Brendan Eich is what happened to Mozilla not Google and Microsoft.

They get paid half a billion a year from Google, so thanks to Google things are like this. There's no incentive whatsoever to beat who pays them.

There's an active incentive NOT to disrupt that relationship.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#799

Post by xp84 »

jiggawatts wrote: post #32
leesalminen wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why do they care so much about this? Is it only for DRM on media playback?

They can finally, finally get rid of those pesky ad blockers. Google is an ad company. They're not a browser company.

Indeed. Nor a search company, nor a phone operating system company, nor a maps company, nor an email provider, nor a business software company.

Whatever someone may think of Google or even of ads, it’s smart to keep that important thing in mind and remember their alignment is and must always be toward maximizing and improving advertising.

Re: Google is already pushing WEI into Chromium

#800

Post by troupo »

derefr wrote: post #770
deelowe wrote: post #636

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, the ask for forgiveness approach. It's common in large, dysfunctional organizations as well. Sometimes the easiest way to get attention is to break things. Then once enough pain is felt, everyone starts taking interest. Trying to follow a proper change control based process only works when everyone is invested in the process.

No, this is just "doing your own thing in a way that doesn't affect anyone else, and allows you to gather data to cite when designing the standard."

In the browsers anything that's not behind a flag is immediately relied on by people.

So no, you shouldn't ask for forgiveness and pretend that you're just gathering data.

That's why what Google is routinely doing now (releasing APIs after a very short period in origin trial and without ever reaching consensus) is so dangerous.

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