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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#791

Post by cheekibreeki2 »

Out_of_Characte wrote: post #779
weird-eye-issue wrote: post #776

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the capsule considered the only critical safety component? If everything else fails wouldn't it just fall to the bottom of the ocean? Even if it can survive that depth that only sounds good on paper. Nobody could get to you.

Because an implosion is a single point of failure leading to instant death. Anything else can be salvaged by staying calm and using one of multiple ways to resurface.

Subs will always have 1000 ways to kill you and most of them are catastrophic. You're pretty much boned if anything goes wrong especially with so few crew members, lack of compartments, backup propulsion, etc.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#792

Post by alkonaut »

I see no problem with that so long as it's fit for the purpose. You can bring 2 spares and have a controller and two spares for $90. Or you can bring a fresh one on each trip to spend $30 per trip to have zero concerns for any corrosion or similar that could happen in these environments.

Once you start doing the opposite: special-puprose building a fixed controller, you have to deal with all the issues that arise. It needs to handle corrosion, you need redundancy etc. It's going to cost thousands. The question asked should be "why should we not use the cheap off the shelf solution" and only choose something else when there is a good reason.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#793

Post by [deleted] »

greiskul wrote: post #531
nonethewiser wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just imagining it running out of batteries. Then the user non-chalantly asks the pilot/guide for the spares. But they get a blank look. They repeat themselves. They must not have heard. They get a grimace this time and they suddenly realize what a precarious situation they were in all along.

They had spare controllers. Part of the idea of using off the shelf components like this, is the ease of replacement. If you have a 100k controller, and it fails, you need to think how to fix it. If your controller costs 30 bucks, throw it away and change for a new one.

[deleted]

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#794

Post by darkerside »

Eisenstein wrote: post #756
miracle2k wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This controller is a metaphor for something that needs to immediately be regulated so that people like this can never get away with it again. There is something to be said for protecting people who would sign up for such an experience while misjudging the risk, or assuming that some government agency does provide oversight. Though, customers seem to have been informed that this is not the case: https://twitter.com/…

Sorry but that doesn't work in a reasonable society. You can't let just anyone do anything they want with the repercussions being 'they don't get rescued'. A few points: * You can't let rescue services decide who deserves to be rescued -- for so many obvious reasons it would be patronizing to list them * People with a lot of money and no sense can fuck things up on a massive scale if we let them do whatever they want…

This is the wisest comment I've read in a while. Trump, depending on your politics, is either the beginning or end state of that particular problem.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#795

Post by lyu07282 »

rtkwe wrote: post #360
jojobas wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The periscope is a combat critical device, lose control of it and the enemy will see you first and you're dead.

It's something that can be quickly swapped out if it does fail though being a wired controller, I'd put decent odds on this company not bothering to put a backup controller in their death tube. Also a periscope is less critical to combat in the age of sonar that can tell you bearing, heading and what type of ship often without the risk of surfacing and getting lit up on radar. Modern subs basically never want to surf…

> this company not bothering to put a backup controller in their death tube

the really strange part of that, is that the pilot was the CEO of the company. Like the Norfolk Southern CEO would never in a million years set foot on one of their trains of death.

Anyhow they now heard sounds in 30minute intervals, so looks like they are still alive down there.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#796

Post by kamaal »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #753
ethbr0 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> OceanGate says it is an experimental vessel, and when CBS travelled onboard the correspondent had to sign a waiver accepting that it "has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death". https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65960217 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=29co_Hksk6o

When I go scuba diving I also need to sign a waiver and acknowledge the inherent risk of the activity. It doesn't mean that the regulator provided by the dive center is McGivered with duct tape and chewing gum. Which seems like the equivalent of the construction and the components quality of that vessel.

I had a colleague who went scuba diving in Los Angeles. Newly wed. Husband and Wife, decide to spend their 4th of July weekend doing water sports.

So they go scuba diving, the wife's mask breaks down, he comes up, she panics she doesn't. She died by drowning. He was totally broken, the wife knew the risks and he knew it too. Nevertheless he wanted her to try because he thought it was fun. He lived with the trauma for years. Probably now as well.

People don't know how bad these things can get. This sort of fun, is definitely not worth anyones life. Just go sight seeing, and have Sundae at Ghirardelli. There are many safe ways of having fun, that don't involve death as a risk factor.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#797

Post by heavyset_go »

johnwalkr wrote: post #782
truemotive wrote: post #689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixed, thanks. I've had a lot of thoughts about this lately. Here's another fun fact: What's wrong with this picture taken while the submersible is out of operation? https://i.imgur.com/lBWlh3i.png Answer: Look underneath the floor. The Altec Lansing ACS33 PowerCube 2.1 speaker system. $35 used on eBay and again from early 2000s era. -> https://i.imgur.com/fVdQ9Pc.png Not safety critical, but so extremely indicative…

Wow that's bad. Every new detail looks like something out of an undergrad project. It works to hack something like that together as a first prototype, but even a masters student in a decent lab with decent mentors can make something much more professional. It's like they must have actively prevented anyone with any professional experience whatsoever from seeing it.

It's likely that anyone with experience immediately walked away from the project when they saw what was going on. Who would want the reputation hit, the liabilities and the blood on their hands when things went wrong?

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#798

Post by kumarvvr »

PinguTS wrote: post #736
kumarvvr wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theranos is an outright fraud. Not the product of getting things done on fast track. They knew things could not be done and kept up the charade for long enough to profit off of it, and hopefully get away.

Really? Think another way: MVP. MVP is a big in the startup scene. No startup tells you how they made there MVP. Most of them think, if I get enough investment, if I get enough customers, then I will make it better. But until now the other way is just enough for my MVP. So some would call it MVP and others would call it fraud. Until it is really being implemented as advertised.

A medical product that compromises accracy is neither viable, nor the minimum nor really a product.

An MVP means something that has just about the core functionality, with bells and whistles and newer use cases coming on later.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#799

Post by sofixa »

jojobas wrote: post #311
cpleppert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox controllers are used to control the periscope which is not a safety critical device. Regardless, the navy uses wired controllers and did extensive testing and verification. This outfit didn't do anything like that; in one video with a journalist the bluetooth controller was a 'feature' because they could pass it around the sub.

The periscope is a combat critical device, lose control of it and the enemy will see you first and you're dead.

Periscopes haven't been combat critical on submarines since slightly after WW2. They rely mostly on sonar to detect enemies, not vision - and of course they would. Periscopes are useless against submarines, and if an anti-submarine ship is nearby, you wouldn't go to periscope depth putting the submarine in a perilous position, and showing it off at that.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#800

Post by ftrobro »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #724
kumarvvr wrote: post #706

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theranos is an outright fraud. Not the product of getting things done on fast track. They knew things could not be done and kept up the charade for long enough to profit off of it, and hopefully get away.

> Theranos is an outright fraud. Not the product of getting things done on fast track Theranos is product of the same culture. Company founder chases a goal they do not understand, and convinces investors its right around the corner. In actuality they have no clue. There is no foundamental difference between theranos diagnosis and tesla autopilot. The only reason we call theranos fraud is that we know conclusively th…

> we know conclusively that their goal is impossible

No we only know that their approach was wrong. Here is a preprint of a paper describing detection of 12 different types of cancer from a single drop of blood:

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-2025767/v1

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