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Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

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Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#791

Post by gerash »

WorldMaker wrote: post #788
Gareth321 wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. This isn't as scary as people say. The threat is that Google does something evil and the web needs to adopt it. Thing is, Chromium is open source. Microsoft or anyone else can immediately fork it. Crisis averted.

The threat isn't just that Google does something intentionally evil. Imagine if there's a WebKit 0-Day that Blink inherited discovered tomorrow that breaks ~96% of today's browsers as soon as that bad actor discoverer weaponizes it. (Or worse uses it to send malware or as an RCE vector.) That's not something Google did intentionally. That's not something that forks can "immediately" fix. That's something that possibl…

With that reasoning, do you also go and reimplement standard libraries just to create enough variance so that if one of them has a security flaw then your code might not inherit it?

IMHO, some software (eg. OpenSSL, rendering engines, etc.) need to be heavily scrutinized and trying to keep multiple implementation around for the sake of diversity makes no sense to me.

Of course if a new implementation of say a rendering engine with a radically different approach emerges I'm all for it taking over.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#792

Post by basch »

JohnFen wrote: post #778
basch wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give an example of something you think will work in standard search but that stateful search would fail to return good results for?

Any searches that aren't looking for an immediate answer. When I'm searching, I don't want the search engine to find an answer for me. I want the search engine to provide me with a list of websites that touch on the topic I'm looking for, so I can get a "big picture" of what's out there, review them, and put together the information I'm looking for from the mosaic that I have been presented. I don't want the search e…

I would expect stateliness/statefulness to work in both directions. Instruct it to broaden its interpretation.

If you provide stateful search with keywords it will return the list you want. Then just dont follow up. Im probably ok with a couple extra instruction words when looking for traditional looking search results. "list sites re [keywords]"

It'll be interesting to see how the product changes over time when it retains some state about your preferences. Maybe you can teach it a bang abbreviation to always give you the type of result you are looking for. (!lw)

(You already see limited state on google when you search something, then search something unrelated and some results for the former keywords show up highlighted. Google sometimes thinks a new search is a folloup search to the previous one.)

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#793

Post by nailer »

gerash wrote: post #790
nailer wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations Not a C developer (and welcome C devs to chime in here) but my understanding is yes. People were really happy when we went from GCC as being the standard compiler to LLVM. > the diversity of Python interpreters? Yes, back (a decade ago) when I used to hack Python it was pretty cool to be able to get IronPython and re-use a bunch of .net assemblies in a…

For the GCC and Clang it's a case of a newer/better compiler architecture taking over an older one. At no point in time I see the advantage of keeping several implementations around just for the sake of "diversity".

Doesn't the new implementation have a better architecture? Isn't architecture the point they diverge?

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#794

Post by WorldMaker »

gerash wrote: post #791
WorldMaker wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat isn't just that Google does something intentionally evil. Imagine if there's a WebKit 0-Day that Blink inherited discovered tomorrow that breaks ~96% of today's browsers as soon as that bad actor discoverer weaponizes it. (Or worse uses it to send malware or as an RCE vector.) That's not something Google did intentionally. That's not something that forks can "immediately" fix. That's something that possibl…

With that reasoning, do you also go and reimplement standard libraries just to create enough variance so that if one of them has a security flaw then your code might not inherit it? IMHO, some software (eg. OpenSSL, rendering engines, etc.) need to be heavily scrutinized and trying to keep multiple implementation around for the sake of diversity makes no sense to me. Of course if a new implementation of say a renderi…

OpenSSL is, I think, another "case in point" example: Heartbleed was an amazingly awful 0-Day that afflicted OpenSSL and I can only imagine how much worse things might have been if Windows didn't use SChannel and FreeBSD (and thus iOS/macOS) didn't use LibreSSL (and if LibreSSL's fork auditing hadn't made a difference in that situation).

Even (especially?) highly scrutinized libraries seem to need diversity in implementation to avoid single point of failure problems.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#795

Post by WorldMaker »

gerash wrote: post #790
nailer wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people also like "diversity" in C++ compiler implementations Not a C developer (and welcome C devs to chime in here) but my understanding is yes. People were really happy when we went from GCC as being the standard compiler to LLVM. > the diversity of Python interpreters? Yes, back (a decade ago) when I used to hack Python it was pretty cool to be able to get IronPython and re-use a bunch of .net assemblies in a…

For the GCC and Clang it's a case of a newer/better compiler architecture taking over an older one. At no point in time I see the advantage of keeping several implementations around just for the sake of "diversity".

If it were just unequivocally "newer/better architecture" they wouldn't coexist side-by-side in the first place, one would have entirely replaced the other by now. Obviously, the differences between the two are much more complex than that.

One reason they are expected to coexist for some time to come is exactly that a lot of Linux (in particular) applications and libraries require gcc specifics. The fact that there are "gcc specifics" that lock those applications and libraries to gcc and can't just "upgrade to the obviously newer/better architecture" is itself an argument for "diversity". C/C++ is "supposed to be" a portable language. If developers were keeping to standards and if clang were indeed objectively better architecture, then nothing should still be using gcc, right? Diversity is one way you encourage developers to stick to portable standards (because then they can use whichever compiler is fastest/better today and switch at-will as all the implementations compete to outperform each other).

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#796

Post by Dalewyn »

medion wrote: post #755
Dalewyn wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can prove there was a source and that source was used without appropriate licensing, that is a valid case of copyright infringement and possibly even IP theft. We really need to stop muddying the water surrounding "AI" and their use of source materials. Those so-called "AIs" are just software like any other program, they are tools like any other computer application, and the copyright and licensing legal prece…

Their ability to transform things (art, text, whatever) at incredible speeds, means chasing copyright is going to be a game of Whac-A-Mole. Also, what percentage of transformation of copyrighted works is still infringement? A GPT can ingest a 500 word piece of copyrighted text and either summarise it down to 50 words or triple the word count in a stylistically unique manner.

Obligatory IANAL.

If you use any copyrighted source material without appropriate licensing (note: Fair Use is a form of licensing) in any way, that's copyright infringement. This is very simple and the legal world has demonstrated that fact time and time again long before computers ever came onto the scene.

Some "AI" drawing a picture derived from copyrighted materials is no different from a game using copyrighted assets from another game. If there is no appropriate licensing, it's copyright infringement.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#797

Post by samspenc »

cabaalis wrote: post #553
veb wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get this, if you use Edge, with bing as search by default and join the waitlist, then another button appears "get access faster" or something, which then takes you to a page to make sure you've defaulted everything to Microsoft, and you've scanned a QR code to download a Bing mobile app. I can't be bothered _all_ of that. Mainly the addition of a new mobile app.

Honestly, the "if you use edge" piece is what is disappointing to me. Did they also have to make a browser play with this stuff? I prefer Firefox.

Looks like they will be supporting Chrome at some point, based on the announce event reports, one of the spokespeople said "Chrome has to implement some features" before they can support it, maybe they'll make a Chrome extension to fill the gap and get it working on there.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#798

Post by arockwell »

paulpan wrote: post #218
revskill wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its goal is to kill Google + Chrome i think. Profit comes later ?

Not if Microsoft kills itself in the process? At best it's a Pyrrhic victory as both companies sink enormous infra costs to outdo one another. Worst case could be like Nokia acquisition debacle a decade ago when Microsoft desperately tried to re-break into mobile and failed. There was a HN thread on this a while ago where consensus was serving cost ~$0.03-0.05 PER query, which is absolutely huge. Adds more credence t…

Those kinds of analysis are total bs. Real cost is most likely a lot lower.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#799

Post by arockwell »

generalizations wrote: post #172
outcoldman wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edge is available on macOS, Linux, iOS and Android.

Unless they use this as a way to pull people back into the Microsoft ecosystem.

Microsoft changed to an OS agnostic strategy with the switch from Ballmer -> Nadella.

Re: Microsoft announces new Bing and Edge browser powered by upgraded ChatGPT AI

#800

Post by feanaro »

Grum9 wrote: post #662
qwertox wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Join the waiting list" is what turned me off. I'm already trying hard enough to use Windows 11 without a Microsoft account (local only) so that I'm definitely not signing into Bing on Edge. Next step they'll require me to link the OS to it.

I recently setup a new laptop for someone with windows 11 and was surprised how easy it was to get around the online account stuff. The wifi was on when I hit the account setup part, I didnt want to make an account for someone else (name an email and password for someone else, what a mess, no thanks), so I powered the router down. The account screen didnt seem to give any options at all to work around it and make a l…

To me this reads as being surprised that you are merely abused and not turned into a slave.
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