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Nobody wants to teach anymore

jessicalexicus.medium.com

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#791

Post by bobthepanda »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #653
asvitkine wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hasn't this changed through union action or lawsuits about needing to work unpaid hours? Surely, an employee should be able to take an employer to court about the employer requiring work that's unpaid. In the courtroom, presumably there can be evidence presented about how these unpaid hours are required by examining experiences of other teachers, etc.

My guess is that this hasn't changed due to union action or lawsuits because (1) teachers are salaried, and tend to be over the limit where overtime pay is legally required; and (2) union organizers don't think they can get any more money without giving something else up.

Also, in the states where this problem is the worst, there’s usually “right to work” legislation and other rules that do their best to defang collective bargaining power.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#792

Post by lkrubner »

dnissley wrote: post #713
Uehreka wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not GP, but I frequently start comments like this if the comment I’m replying to isn’t just slightly off, but reflects a deeply unexamined prior. It’s a signal that “The thing that’s wrong with your comment isn’t even in the text of the comment, it’s in the worldview that led you to think this in the first place. Simply reacting to the text of the comment would be insufficient.”

The problem is that this type of reply reflects your own deeply unexamined prior (e.g. that software can't play a part of solving this issue, or that anyone who said X believes Y, etc.), and so sets up an antagonistic interaction with the other person where you are each arguing from atop your ladders of inference, rather than climbing down those ladders and deconstructing those priors in more detail.

> your own deeply unexamined prior

It’s often a deeply examined prior. The people I know who are the most doubtful about software are the engineers with more than 20 years experience. They have spent most of their adult lives thinking about what software is, and isn’t, good for.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#793

Post by ryandrake »

thayne wrote: post #477
dhosek wrote: post #457

Former HS math teacher here. It was the hardest job I’ve ever had. I still have nightmares about being back in the classroom 18 years later. I was easily working 12+ hours a day doing class planning, grading, etc. not to mention the actual teaching. Returning to programming my pay doubled and my stress level dropped profoundly. Teacher pay should easily be double what it is. (And about that summers off—with the excep…

My mother is a teacher, and she often has to do work during the summer to prepare for the next year, even though her pay is based on her getting the summer off. Not to mention that she is required to do additional training during the summer, sometimes at her own expense.

I agree. My parents and step-parents are all [retired] teachers, too, and nothing irritated them quite like the "BuT tHeY hAvE sUmMeRs OfF!" crap from people who have no idea what they're talking about. Trust me, we never went on kickass 3 month long summer family vacations. My parents worked their asses off throughout the summer, tying up loose ends from the previous year, working on lesson plans, training, and preparing for the next year.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#794

Post by ryandrake »

briHass wrote: post #788
KennyBlanken wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, and hear me out: we could cut our military budget (which is larger than the next ten or so countries combined, both total and per capita) and start tipping the corporate tax share back towards the ~%50 it was sixty years ago and magically be able to: * pay teachers a fair wage * hire enough teachers, assistants, and admins so that teachers don't have to work at least another half a workday 'off the books' * fund…

Why is it always about more money? The US is usually in the top 3 spending per student (beaten only by small countries that represent statistical outliers like Norway or Luxemburg), so really, it spends the most. Yet, as many are quick to point out, all that money results in educational outcomes well below many European countries and also many Asian countries that spend far, far less.

The money is largely not going to teacher salaries, classroom supplies, or to anything that affects "educational outcomes".

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#795

Post by peyton »

SQueeeeeL wrote: post #750
auslegung wrote: post #746

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure your experience sucked, but having a bunch of crappy coworkers doesn’t mean 100s of thousands of teachers across the nation are likely to be “the worst, most power hungry, little-napoleon office manager you’ve ever had”.

Yeah, but this is Hacker news. Blaming individual teachers validates the idea that there aren't major systemic problems in the country. It's not that teachers are underpaid and class sizes are exploding, it's simply the case that the existing crop of teachers aren't egalitarian enough to handle the job

I honestly don’t follow. Doesn’t paying more money or reducing class size (by hiring more teachers) directly imply the existing crop of teachers can’t handle the job? Or are you saying we pay the exact same people more money? And reduce class sizes how? Requiring students take fewer classes?

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#796

Post by bergenty »

int0x2e wrote: post #525
bergenty wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Special Ed is as stupid as doing open heart surgeries on 85 year olds to give them 3 extra years. They’re an enormous burden on the system and are ruining everything for almost all of us. Why do severely mentally handicapped kids even need to be educated. Just provide them with an amount of money to live their lives and make their time here as happy as possible. There is going to be a reckoning.

I suspect you haven't met too many people in these programs. I had a student in one of my university programs who was handicapped and could barely see 3ft in front of him. Guy had to ride in a motorized chair, get guided around campus, and use a super-zoom lens and a laptop screen that made everything 10x-50x its size to be able to read the whiteboard/presentations. I'm sure none of that stuff was cheap. But that guy…

Yeah but is it worth the hundreds of thousands or possibly millions that the tax payers had to pay for that to be possible for him? My answer is a firm no. It’s not cruel, you have to draw the line somewhere. I could say it’s cruel I can’t live wherever I want and spend my days as I please but we can all agree it isn’t.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#797

Post by acjohnson55 »

archduck wrote: post #778
dnissley wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that this type of reply reflects your own deeply unexamined prior (e.g. that software can't play a part of solving this issue, or that anyone who said X believes Y, etc.), and so sets up an antagonistic interaction with the other person where you are each arguing from atop your ladders of inference, rather than climbing down those ladders and deconstructing those priors in more detail.

On the other hand, some contributions to a conversation are simply beyond the boundaries of common sense in such a way (blindingly obvious, unacceptable, dangerously naive, etc.) that ridicule is appropriate. Even if the contribution was made in good faith. Ridicule has numerous powerful social functions: it helps social groups self-govern, transmits knowledge from one generation to the next, enables social groups to…

I personally don't think ridicule is ever necessary or appropriate. Even if it results in compliance or submission in the moment, it's very likely to produce resentment. In an organization, it produces a culture of fear, rather than curiosity and initiative.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#798

Post by bergenty »

greedo wrote: post #620
bergenty wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Special Ed is as stupid as doing open heart surgeries on 85 year olds to give them 3 extra years. They’re an enormous burden on the system and are ruining everything for almost all of us. Why do severely mentally handicapped kids even need to be educated. Just provide them with an amount of money to live their lives and make their time here as happy as possible. There is going to be a reckoning.

Special Ed spending is not just severely handicapped kids. Some of them have minor issues that require assistance or an IEP. My daughter for example had a stutter that required the help of a speech pathologist. After a year of help, she no longer stuttered, and graduated with an A average. Yet you see this type of thing as an enormous burden, where I see it as no different than a teacher tutoring a student struggling…

Yes, I realize there are varying degrees and in many if not most cases it makes sense. There are a very small number of cases that are an unbearable burden on the entire system and if not checked it will bring the whole house down for everyone. There has to be some sort of actuarial science involved with this sort of thing when it comes to government spending on accommodating the handicapped and in terminal hospice care.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#799

Post by acjohnson55 »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #739
acjohnson55 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment is net -1 right now, and I don't believe I made any assumptions about the person I responded to in the feedback I tried to offer. If people don't think my feedback is useful, that's fine, but if I had started it off with something like "ah, the presumptuous teacher", I'm pretty sure it would be been received even worse. I read the initial comment as asking a naive question, but I think that's great, as lon…

"ah, the presumptuous teacher" . That is a perfect example of bad discourse. Why is it bad? Because it is "Ad Hominem". It attacks the person making the comment, not the reasoning in the comment. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Right, that's my point.
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