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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#791

Post by naasking »

Ensorceled wrote: post #423
naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

A recent poll indicated that most Canadians disagree with the protest on almost all matters[1] and that almost 3/4 of Canadians support vaccine passports. Not sure where you are getting your numbers. Yes, you need to listen to your minorities but this is the tail wagging the dog. [1] https://brighterworld.mcmaster.ca/articles/analysis-majority...

Your own link supports my claims. Many of the activities listed there have much less than 75% support you claim for vaccination requirements. The soft "somewhat agree" is certainly not a definitive vote for vaccine mandates that you seem to implying.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#792

Post by BeefWellington »

karpierz wrote: post #32
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

Pierre Trudeau did far worse with the War Measures Act, which gave the government sweeping powers of arrest and detention without trial. Whether this will be a bad look on the government's part (from the public's perspective) depends on whether they can resolve this without incident. Unclear if the protestors will be able to dig in further if they're arrested for the various city laws they've broken. I suspect that i…

To add on to this, the Emergency Act was designed to replace the War Measures Act explicitly because of what Trudeau Senior did. It has a TON of caveats to it and requires ongoing review and is time limited. Nothing that is done under the Emergency Act is allowed to contravene the constitution.

The posters here decrying this as authoritarian don't understand anything about Canadian law, experience, or mindset and are going by what they're fed by their individual media source of choice. The War Measures Act invocation by Pierre Trudeau was one of the most singularly divisive moments (some would argue it was necessary, some would argue the opposite) in Canadian history, and made parliament realize they needed to rein in the Prime Minister's powers.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#794

Post by fishidns »

Pigalowda wrote: post #432
fishidns wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to make sure everyone has the correct piece of data to think about this. The mandate says that non-Canadian truckers need to be vaccinated to enter the country. The mandate says that Canadian truckers, if they are not vaccinated, are not going to be exempt from the normal border entry measures, which is that they'd need to quarantine on entry unless they are vaccinated. The US has a similar mandate for Cana…

> How do you feel about paying for healthcare of people who are not vaccinated and need care to treat COVID? I’m a vaccinated boosted physician and will continue to get boosted every 6 months. Mandates/coercion for medical treatment violate patient autonomy and medical ethics. I am ok with those who aren’t vaccinated getting medical treatment. Same with flu, mmr, DTP, and other vaccines. I’m ok with alcoholics, addic…

> Many people have health problems that are directly related to their own personal decisions. And yes, they should get treatment

I agree in ideal, but the next question to make that a reality is how? You'll have to find ways to scale the system and pay for it all. And that's where you can experiment with taxes, levies, preventative mandates, regulations and such.

This is how we managed to scale and offer those for smokers and all other prior.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#795

Post by naasking »

sokoloff wrote: post #352
naasking wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is deceptive. It's not supported by a majority of Canadians, but their message was still supported by almost half of Canadians at the outset, and is still supported by a third. When a third of your population speaks, you should listen if you're a representative democracy.

You should listen to the one-third, but you also should listen to the two-thirds and weigh their opinion appropriately more heavily.

Sometimes. Leaders arent just supposed to follow though, they have to lead too. Knowing when to do which is the mark of a great leader.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#796

Post by anonporridge »

capybara_2020 wrote: post #696
Jackim wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is an exaggerated headline. Accounts being used to fund illegal activities can be frozen. Protesting is not and will not be illegal. Blocking critical infrastructure is illegal.

I am not a north American so I just catch glimpses of what is happening in articles that pop up like this. So I am not taking sides here. Just making an observation about protests in general. With that being said, how do you get noticed? I remember there was a Wall Street protest of some kind right after the crash. They sat quietly in parks and protested because people got annoyed when they were "inconvenienced" when…

We quickly forget that many civil rights protests were illegal, or at least, highly disruptive to the normal function of society, as were the BLM protests.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#797

Post by listenallyall »

SECProto wrote: post #505
kerneloftruth wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trudeau is calling the whole protest illegal. Last week they arrested an old man for merely honking his horn to show support. So, anyone attending a protest is joining an illegal activity...and can have their accounts frozen. There's no guarantee of due process in Canada's constitution?

> Trudeau is calling the whole protest illegal. The whole protest has been illegal from the start (violating the highway traffic act) > Last week they arrested an old man for merely honking his horn to show support. Source? Either way, yes, there was an injunction granted specifically against honking horns. > So, anyone attending a protest is joining an illegal activity...and can have their accounts frozen. No, anyon…

This is a parody post, right? Like your claims are so absurd as to convince readers the government has overreached, yes?

> violating the highway traffic act

Show me the man, and I'll find you a crime. Seriously man, what the fuck is the "Highway Traffic Act."

> an injunction granted specifically against honking horns

Let's simply declare a benign activity that people do thousands of times per day in every city, illegal!

> this specific protest at this specific time

But also, you better not show up at similar protests at other times either

> provincial state of an emergency

Yep, the blanket "emergency declaration" that makes virtually everything we don't like, illegal

> joining an illegal activity

because we just declared whatever you are doing to be illegal

> anyone providing monetary support to said illegal activity may have their accounts frozen

so you don't have to be a protester to be engulfed by this, just offering $5 so someone can get a coffee means you could have your accounts frozen. Cast a wide net, indeed!

> It'll be up to the courts to decide after the fact

Yes, by judges who are appointed by Canada's federal government!

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#798

Post by inter_netuser »

JamisonM wrote: post #553
screye wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was certainly less than 10% of Indian farmers. It was rooted in Punjab, and had weak support in Eastern UP and Haryana. That's it. Also, unlike Trudeau's mandates which had questionable backing from the constitution, the Farm Bill was passed by a Democratic Govt. with the necessary popular mandate.

The current government of Canada was very recently elected in an election that was mostly about the pandemic response and mandates in particular, the notion that this represents some undermining of the democratic process is a bit of a stretch.

Liberals didn’t get the majority mandate. They are a minority govt that lost seats in the election.

Rather weak mandate.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#799

Post by amscanne »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #515
amscanne wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As usual, the devil is in the details. I would agree that the bridge is critical, and that forceful removal was justified. I’m less convinced that Wellington St. is critical, and I would be concerned that only the broadest brushes will be used to determine which accounts will be frozen and why.

It's not just Wellington St, it's Ottawa from the Canal to Bronson, and Somerset to Welligton. On the weekend it's extended all the way up Bank St. A giant no-go zone where businesses and pedestrians aren't safe.

Aren’t MPs still coming and going each day in the midst of it? That’s hard to square with a “no-go zone”.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#800

Post by Barrin92 »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #679
SECProto wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trudeau is calling the whole protest illegal. The whole protest has been illegal from the start (violating the highway traffic act) > Last week they arrested an old man for merely honking his horn to show support. Source? Either way, yes, there was an injunction granted specifically against honking horns. > So, anyone attending a protest is joining an illegal activity...and can have their accounts frozen. No, anyon…

The only thing sadder than the authoritarian measures adopted in Canada and Australia is the glee with which so many of their citizens embrace it.

The only thing that's sad is that a bunch of enraged people aren't getting vaccinated during an ongoing pandemic and instead decide to break the law and cause untold sums in economic damage.

Getting these people off the street isn't authoritarianism, it's preventing the inmates from running the asylum.

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