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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#791

Post by Daishiman »

benjaminwootton wrote: post #667
partiallypro wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age and also just health status in general, people with diabetes or heart issues are vulnerable; but to your point most of those vulnerable are now vaccinated.

My point was that triple jabbing the worlds healthy 5-30 year olds will not move the needle on hospital demand. They are simply not vulnerable to the disease in a significant way. So sure, let’s discuss unvaxxed/1 shot/2 shot/boosted splits, but in the relevant population. To focus on 20 year olds is a red herring.

COVID vaccines reduce the incidence of long COVID symptoms, which most definitely affect young people.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#793

Post by avs733 »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #541
avs733 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had an extremely traumatic accident a week ago and came into a major city hospital as a level one trauma patient. I came in with absolutely no wait..ambulance directly to a trauma bay, no waiting, no clothing, no nothing. After about six hours they figure out I was not going to die and was relatively okay. Okay here means two broken legs not “walking around”. Half of the patients at this hospital had covid and I ha…

Is the explanation simply that so many nurses are being forced to isolate with Omicron? Since even vaccinated staff can still spread it, so they still take the tests often, and isolate for 2 weeks if positive.

I would suggest the explanation is similar to the supply chain.

In the interest of profits we have wrung every ounce of every part of the system that runs healthcare. And at the end of all of those elements are human beings. Such systems are unstable. They work but are not fault tolerant at scale because no one ever really looks at the whole system they just look at a part of the system they control. I’m okay if healthcare is more like an a320 as opposed to an F22 because the F22 needs 50 man hours of maintenance to fly and the a320 does it’s thing in a much more germane fashion. Jwst can have 184 single point of failure actuators because it’s the bleeding edge, healthcare needs to have -184.

The problem is we see humans as humans. A machine breaks, it is not perceived as having agency, autonomy, or humanity we don’t blame it. When people die waiting in an er or healthcare personnel are short with patients or quit in droves there is a person whose actions and motives we can question and blame. We understand that experience slightly more and can find ways to question it.

It isolates the problems from view. When no one’s looking at the whole system (and being listened to) no one can shift course. It was not efficient to build capacity for truly abnormal events, so it didn’t make financial sense For anyone to do so. And now nurses are testing and isolating…and. Not just. And.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#794

Post by christophilus »

hutzlibu wrote: post #640
saiya-jin wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes its very common even in richest places. Case point #2 - Geneva, Switzerland has the biggest public hospital in whole country (HUG). They employ around 10k personnel overall, and Geneva is relatively small city (they call it the smallest metropole for a reason). There is no shortage of money or high tech equipment. But if you came pre-covid during say weekend night and you were not clearly about to die, 10+h waiti…

Well, here in germany it is quite similar. That means, I had to wait only a short time once, but that was after a dog bite to my face and it just looked horrible with blood all over it. But the next time, with an deep open wound in my leg, which was actually way more dangerous, I had to wait quite some time, before they even checked.

I think I’d read your biography.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#795

Post by GiorgioG »

crackercrews wrote: post #487
GiorgioG wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because only democratic politicians ignore the rules.

Surely not. But I couldn't think of a single republican politician who has either created or advocated for a rule that he/she then broke. Can you help with examples?

Republicans have faced fewer accusations because they have not implemented as many of the restrictions that public health experts have called for.

It's hard to break rules that don't exist.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#796

Post by throw_nbvc1234 »

rcpt wrote: post #774
JPKab wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that excess deaths can be attributed to any single cause is simply not based on data and/or science. What is the age breakdown of these excess deaths? If the distribution doesn't mirror the age distribution of known COVID deaths, that's an immediate indicator that it's factoring in multiple sources. Drug overdoses, attempted suicides and actual suicides are way up, for example. Drug abuse is way up. Ch…

> Drug overdoses, attempted suicides and actual suicides are way up, for example. Drug abuse is way up. Child abuse is way up. Just to be clear, you're saying that the reason we've seen hundreds of thousands of excess deaths last year is because of drugs, suicides, and child abuse.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatalit... https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/mortality-dashboard.htm#

If people want to explore some "crude" (CDC's word) data by age group. Cherry-picking some data, there were 10-15 times more drug overdoses then covid deaths in 2020 (Q2-3) for 25-34. Similar ratios for 15-24. And I'm sure it'll be the exact opposite for higher age groups or if you focused on people with comorbidities. Yet these demographics are grouped together without any nuance when it comes to mandates. Note this is pre-vaccine and pre-delta so not really representative of current state of things.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#797

Post by yibg »

xdennis wrote: post #779
yibg wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedoms aren’t considered in isolation. Maintaining freedom for some means removing freedom for others some times. In this case the “freedom” to get timely treatment for those that need it.

> the “freedom” to get timely treatment for those that need it. That's not freedom. Freedom is not putting up barriers.

Interesting. In this take, what are the limits to freedom? Your right to swing your fist and all that. If your actions are limiting what I can do, is that not curtailing my freedoms?

Edit: to be clear on where I stand. I think you can do whatever you want, as long as it doesn't affect me. If it affects me, maybe you should still be able to do it, but then we need some thought and discussion and isn't an automatic right because "freedom".

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#798

Post by listenallyall »

ipaddr wrote: post #666
bonzini wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why are they so adamant to vaccinate those with prior infection Because the data shows they don't matter. This is the same thing as deaths due to covid vs. deaths while positive to covid. Sure some people might have been miscounted as covid deaths but actually died due to cancer/car accident/whatever. Despite this the excess deaths over the past two years is much higher than the number of covid deaths; thus showing…

Data has been showing 80/20 vaxed/non vaxed hospitalizations for this new variant. How does that change your worldview?

Isn't that highly subjective, however? Two people show up to the hospital feeling equally lousy, both test positive for Omicron. First guy says he's vaxxed and boosted, doc suggests he's fully protected, this is the worst of it, go home and rest up (which is exactly what a doctor told my father). Second guy says nope, I'm unvaxxed. Doc is probably going to admit this guy overnight for observation.

Multiply by tens of thousands, and you can project the effects on hospitalization stats, which aren't necessarily tied to the degree of illness.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#799

Post by [deleted] »

lwkl wrote: post #729
dahfizz wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because the data shows they don't matter. Source? Because the CDC says otherwise. > In the first full week of October, vaccinated New Yorkers with a prior Covid-19 case were 19.8 times less likely to catch the virus than their unvaccinated and uninfected peers, whereas people who were unvaccinated but previously infected were 14.7 times less likely, and vaccinated but uninfected New Yorkers were just 4.5 times less…

The person you are replying to is talking about hospitalizations for severe ilness. The study you are quoting is talking about covid infections in general. These two are not the same and the vaccine protects from the former (severe illness and death).

[deleted]

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#800

Post by xdennis »

vkou wrote: post #596
djbebs wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that raw data of vaccine trials aren't even being made public I doubt that any reliable data is being collected, let alone analysed

At this point, given that the quantity and quality of the public data of vaccine rollouts dwarfs the data of vaccine trials in both scope and usefulness, anyone still grousing about vaccine trial data is just playing political football, for the sake of FUD. It's like arguing about the raw data of the Wright brothers flight, when millions of people are flying around the world on 747s. Was it relevant in the past? Yes.…

If a policeman breaks into your house without a warrant it's illegal even if he is right and you are a criminal. Procedures have to be followed.
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