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A generation of American men give up on college

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Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they all send you free books, in the hope you'll pick their one.

I'm still missing the part where I get rich! Please tell me! Truth be told, in my field the intro level textbooks are essentially indistinguishable, down to graphics and specific examples, and every publisher has one. Even if I got free samples for all of them (I don't), there is zero difference for the student. You look at the classics, maybe check out a new book, but in the end pick the one you're already familiar…

It does depend on the field, in mine (psychology) the textbooks can be very, very different due to the size and bifurcation of the field.

But yeah, you won't get rich, but you will get a full bookshelf, so you'll be rich in knowledge ;)

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#793
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t explain your reply. Are you claiming there is no difference in how society treats males vs females? Why do you assume the commenter is talking about themselves? Do you understand what masculinity is? How about toxic masculinity? Are you male?

> Do you understand what masculinity is? This is the best question. Masculinity is just an archetype. It could have been three dudes standing around, "Hey you know, we are all strong, smart, and like to protect our families. I bet it's because we have these third legs, pretty sure that's it." And then we pass it down generations. Tell women the same BS about femininity. Letting just a few folks define what a gender r…

[deleted]

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#794
post #780

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t explain your reply. Are you claiming there is no difference in how society treats males vs females? Why do you assume the commenter is talking about themselves? Do you understand what masculinity is? How about toxic masculinity? Are you male?

> Do you understand what masculinity is? This is the best question. Masculinity is just an archetype. It could have been three dudes standing around, "Hey you know, we are all strong, smart, and like to protect our families. I bet it's because we have these third legs, pretty sure that's it." And then we pass it down generations. Tell women the same BS about femininity. Letting just a few folks define what a gender r…

> Letting just a few folks define what a gender represents, as if one side or the other does not share those traits.

If you think masculinity is arbitrary and that traits are not specific to a gender, then why do you argue that men should be denied the same supports that other people get at college?

> And yes I am straight, white, and male,

Why are you so angry at white men?

> with a nice haircut and could tell you the 7 day forecast everyday of the year.

What relevance do these have?

> Would love to hear your definition on masculinity and why you treasure it's meaning so much.

Asking you what it means to you doesn’t imply anyone treasures it’s meaning. You are reading that in.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#795
post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is dripping with sarcasm. Why do you have such hatred of white men in particular? Also, why are you making this about race? The basis of the article was about how men are not getting the support they need. Why do you keep bringing “white men” into it? All we’re taking about is recognizing that there are support services provided to women which are not provided to men, and there is no reason that men sho…

You are making a lot of huge jumps there, incorrectly, (except for the sarcasm, completely on point), and you asked like 5 questions. Everyone should get support! More support! Everyone. By focusing on men, you are stating it is MORE challenging for men. It is not. Men should get more support, so should everyone, but if we are handing out bread, men should be last to receive, as our plate is the fullest. Do you reall…

[deleted]

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#796
post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is dripping with sarcasm. Why do you have such hatred of white men in particular? Also, why are you making this about race? The basis of the article was about how men are not getting the support they need. Why do you keep bringing “white men” into it? All we’re taking about is recognizing that there are support services provided to women which are not provided to men, and there is no reason that men sho…

You are making a lot of huge jumps there, incorrectly, (except for the sarcasm, completely on point), and you asked like 5 questions. Everyone should get support! More support! Everyone. By focusing on men, you are stating it is MORE challenging for men. It is not. Men should get more support, so should everyone, but if we are handing out bread, men should be last to receive, as our plate is the fullest. Do you reall…

> You are making a lot of huge jumps there, incorrectly,

If that was true, you’d be able to quote one.

> (except for the sarcasm, completely on point)

Can you explain what is behind your sarcasm?

> and you asked like 5 questions.

I did!

> Everyone should get support! More support! Everyone.

> By focusing on men,

The article we are discussion is focussed on men. That is why we are focusing on men.

> you are stating it is MORE challenging for men.

I think that’s just an assumption of yours. If you can find something I’ve said that implies that, you can quote it. And we can discuss it.

> Men should get more support, so should everyone, but if we are handing out bread, men should be last to receive, as our plate is the fullest.

Even if this were true, it’s not what we are discussing. The article states that men are not receiving the same level of support as everyone else.

You have not explained why that should be the case.

Are you a college age man?

> Do you really think men have it worse?

The article states that men have it worse in terms of support on campus.

> I don't,

You don’t think the article says this?

> being a guy is super great, much easier,

How do you know? Are you a college age man?

> and complaining about it just makes you seem like you lack perspective.

Who is complaining about being a man?

> Only you can tell us.

We are discussing the resources available to college students and I am arguing that men should receive the same supports as everyone else.

It’s still not clear what you are contributing with sarcastic and generic statements about men, or white men in particular.

Your points don’t seem relevant to the discussion of college, but to some more general ideas you have about how great it is to be a man.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#797
post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current admissions policies in many universities and schools explicitly give black people an advantage. This is not a secret. > In the US, it take 200 years and 12 civil wars. It’s unclear what you mean by “12 civil wars”.

Yea black people always getting that advantage, you should let more people know. I mean, people just don't understand how hard it is to be white these days with twitter hate and everything. Be the voice! Let me know how it goes.

> Current admissions policies in many universities and schools explicitly give black people an advantage.

Are you denying that this is true, or are you simply unaware of it?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Men are failing because it is the policy not to support them. And because men need the support . I suspect that a lot fewer men needed support in, say, 1950. Why do more men need support than did in 1950? I think the first reason may be because of education. Our education system is failing in a way that it wasn't in 1950. (This may be too harsh. If, say, 10% of high school graduates went to college in 1950, and 50%…

It's called therapy, not blaming other people that don't look like you coming up. And yea, therapy is expensive and usually not covered by medical insurance. So vote.

> not blaming other people that don't look like you coming up

What makes you imagine anyone here is blaming people that don’t look like them for something?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#799
post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making a lot of huge jumps there, incorrectly, (except for the sarcasm, completely on point), and you asked like 5 questions. Everyone should get support! More support! Everyone. By focusing on men, you are stating it is MORE challenging for men. It is not. Men should get more support, so should everyone, but if we are handing out bread, men should be last to receive, as our plate is the fullest. Do you reall…

> You are making a lot of huge jumps there, incorrectly, If that was true, you’d be able to quote one. > (except for the sarcasm, completely on point) Can you explain what is behind your sarcasm? > and you asked like 5 questions. I did! > Everyone should get support! More support! Everyone. > By focusing on men, The article we are discussion is focussed on men. That is why we are focusing on men. > you are stating it…

Jesus, zepto: A) Thanks for such a detailed response B) Screw you for such a detailed response, my thumbs gonna hurt

I write on my phone while watching travel videos on youtube and drinking, quoting is a pain, you deserve a better conversation, but I'll do my best,(thats a lie).

Sarcasm is great, its meant to get people riled up, you should try it, makes these comments more entertaining while also exaggerating another's end goal to show where those ideals lead.

Regarding focusing on men, (each paragraph to your points), I read the article, (like three times now because I feel like we read different things), its an opinion piece, I am trying to tell you I disagree with the summation that men, and white men, (the article brings up race!), are at a disadvantage and don't have the same LEVEL of support. They get different support, like being white and/or male, which for real, I will not go over again why its so much easier/better to be male and/or white. (Higher paying job while you get through school!)

At this point you aren't stating much, just trying interview me or something, so I'll assume all I want.

The article is providing context as pertains only to college. Disregards that white men have better access to college prep classes, paid more while they go to school, less chance of hardships, (not saying there are no hardships but again white male life = easier life) I really don't care if less men are going to college, I didn't graduate, not the end of the world, still had it easier. And no, not college age, but if you are, I swear life is better when older.

(oi i am only half way through)

Yea, "in terms of" thats the point that gets me, like caring about that, with all the other advantages you get from being white and/or male, you need to made sure no one else can ever have a different advantage, especially one thats easy to get around and still get to where you want.

Again, it's an opinion piece article, I am pointing out I think it's disagreeable because its so shortsighted.

Now you point out it's an age thing, I mean, sleep easy on that point, you are right. I haven't been that age for 13 years. Still live and work with people of all ages, share stories, listen to their lives, try to do my best to figure out whats going on, empathize... But if you want to say its a secretive world I would only understand if I were you, please help me get it, pretty sure these threads can go as long as we want.

I mean, you are debating heavily to prove that men have it worse, "in terms of" whatever, I can take that another step and just say you are complaining. Could go further with sarcasm and take if further but you pointed out you are not a fan.

I get your argument, but I am pointing out that while you are saying "same" you literally mean men should have access to support that is reserved for different people that have different hardships, in order to try to make the playing field more level. You, (not saying you personally, but in case you go there), can't say we should have the same access to support in college while having much different obstacles in life.

And yea definitely not trying to contribute anything, button says "comment" or "reply", not contribute, you feel like my opinions are that lame or what?

And yea, tying in a lot of things, but all related and what your greater point of view may be.

I like you zepto, just trying to help with your perspective. Obviously, that was a lot to write from both of us.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#800
post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you understand what masculinity is? This is the best question. Masculinity is just an archetype. It could have been three dudes standing around, "Hey you know, we are all strong, smart, and like to protect our families. I bet it's because we have these third legs, pretty sure that's it." And then we pass it down generations. Tell women the same BS about femininity. Letting just a few folks define what a gender r…

> Letting just a few folks define what a gender represents, as if one side or the other does not share those traits. If you think masculinity is arbitrary and that traits are not specific to a gender, then why do you argue that men should be denied the same supports that other people get at college? > And yes I am straight, white, and male, Why are you so angry at white men? > with a nice haircut and could tell you t…

Happy Thursday buddy.

The premise of your question doesn't relate to that last part, (masculinity vs men, different things) but I can answer the last part: they do get the same level of support maybe even better, but no, they shouldn't receive specific support reserved for folks with different obstacles.

I like white men! Love everyone! I dislike excuses around "poor me"s from folks that lack perspective on how they have it better, (I did not say good, said better). And not all white dudes feel sorry for themselves and blame "society", or college, or women, or other skin colors, or etc... Those folks are awesome to hang with. I'll hang with anyone, but you'll get an ear full if you bring that stuff up and are a white dude, still friendly though.

THE RELEVANCE OF MY HAIR IS EVERYTHING, I am in my 30's and it's committing suicide everyday, I'll talk about it while I still can. (You really hate my jokes, still like you though)

I usually don't care if you don't answer my questions but I was truly truly hoping you'd answer what you think masculinity is, I answered for you, come on now.

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