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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#791

Post by megous »

walterbell wrote: post #788
megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

At this point, a practical course of action would be to ignore dialectical pro/con arguments from paid and unpaid influencers on both sides, along with conflicted institutions that even on their best day cannot keep up with the pace of modern society. Can we create an open-source tool that supplements the much-criticized VAERS, which is at least government (i.e. taxpayer) funded, regulated and provides open data for…

That would be actually nice!

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#792

Post by goostavos »

dfxm12 wrote: post #391
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recent came across a technique for having a more substantial discussion and it was to ask: "Well, what would it take for you to change your mind?" Not that this is a silver bullet that automatically leads to peace and harmony, but it's a step in the right direction.

What type of responses did you get? I agree, engaging people is a good way to go. I don't know any anti-vaxxers personally, so I have to actively work to remind myself they might not all have the same reasons as the ones I know impersonally (who all happen to be full of misinfo, like Eric Clapton, et al.). There are no silver bullets that lead to peace and harmony, obviously, but a greater understanding of each other…

Pure fwiw, I currently do not plan to get the vaccine (but reserve the right to change my mind! ^_^). I'm not anti-vax by any means. I'm simply just hesitant with this vax, but encourage others with a different risk profile to get it.

It boils down to a really muddy mix of small things that all sum up to a decision against it.

For instance, I'm not the risk group and, due to being super medically conservative for _everything_ (to a fault!), I tend to not take medical interventions I don't strictly require.

I think that the vaccines are overwhelmingly safe from an absolute risk perspective, but among the least safe things we've deployed into wide usage from a relative risk perspective. It's tough for me to convince myself to take an intervention I don't need. Stack onto this things like the PREP act, guaranteed orders, big pharma's history, this being the first mRna vaccine to get through Phase III, and more hesitancy gets added on my side. As data from other countries rolls in, the efficacy side is also interesting, but that's a different topic.

Finally, there's just general disposition. Whether lockdowns, restrictions, or vaccinations, people seem to fall into one of two groups: those who favor public heath above all else, and those who favor personal liberty above all else. Due to some wrongthink, I fall into the latter camp. The behavior of those in the former camp pushes me away from my medically hesitant "wait and see" position, into one of, frankly, staunch dismissal out of pure curiosity to see how willing society is to marginalize those who made a 'wrong' medical decision.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#793

Post by tialaramex »

megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

It's true that systematic surveillance of vaccine side effects is poor. For example, even when HPV vaccination of teenage girls became a thing, one of the obvious side effects you'd guess will freak out teenage girls (changes in menstruation) wasn't tracked very well. We genuinely don't know beyond "Clearly not drastic enough that it caused significant medical problems" whether this is something that was noticeable above background levels.

However one problem we have is that for mere side effects ("My arm aches a bit", "My period was a week late", "I feel kinda sleepy in the morning") we don't have good baseline data to compare with. I'd quite like to see someone study, e.g. if we change the Facebook blue colour slightly, and ask a study cohort, what medical "side effects" do they report for that? Clearly someone in a large survey population will report that their right thumb hurts now, and we can reason (but not prove) that's not going to be a direct result of the CSS change, but measuring what this noise looks like would provide a baseline for low risk vaccinations.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#794

Post by megous »

clawlor wrote: post #780
megous wrote: post #761

There are people with long term issues starting right after vaccination. Not safety issues, which everyone and their dog studies, just multi-month constant pain that will not kill you but just disables you from your normal life for months, that is not solvable by regular NSAIDs, as usual, and that you'll get no compensation for from anyone. I'm just interested in how common this is after vaccination, and perhaps when…

> why not just give every 5th person vaccinated in some large center a link and a code to enter observed side effects after 1 day, 3 days, week, and a month, and then maybe 3 months after into some website. The CDC ran such a study. IDK about results, or how many people participated. https://vsafe.cdc.gov/en/

https://megous.com/dl/tmp/de8ce131adc65333.png

Would be nice to see the results.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#795

Post by jjeaff »

ufmace wrote: post #498
thepasswordis wrote: post #200

People don’t want to take the vaccine because others are trying to force them to. They would say “it’s not FDA approved!” not as the core of their hesitancy, but because they were trying to be appeal to pro-vax peoples decision making framework. I don’t think we should be able to require them to. To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities wo…

> To many of you here: imagine the Trump admin trying to require you to take the vaccine in November of last year. Cities would have burned over it. It's very political. There's a bunch of screenshots and videos floating around of left-wing people who didn't trust the vaccine because they perceived it as coming from the Trump administration when it was in place. Now that we've swapped presidents, the side of that hav…

I agree about the politicization. But the two are not equivalent. Reticence to take a brand new vaccine on a brand new technology that is still untested is not even close to the people that are currently decrying it for safety concerns after 150m people have taken it and clinical trials have been completed.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#796

Post by thefunnyman »

skocznymroczny wrote: post #784
eganist wrote: post #2

My biggest concern now is around seeing those who hedged their willingness to get the vaccine on its approval instead find a new reason not to get it. So with that in mind, I'm much more keen on seeing how employers will decide on vaccination mandates now that at least one vaccine is fully approved. Any news yet on whether any more employers are likely implementing mandates (if they haven't already this morning) base…

Why are you so obsessed with forcing vaccinations on people? Can't you just get vaccinated and enjoy your perceived safety?

Vaccinations are most effective if we reach herd immunity, which requires others to get vaccinated. The safety is not “perceived”, it’s scientifically verified by tracking hospitalization and death rates as it’s been rolled out at a global scale. The reason herd immunity is so important is that those that are immunocompromised _cannot_ safely get a vaccination and thus rely on there being enough vaccinated individuals to reduce the chance of catching it. Further, by many choosing to remain unvaccinated and allowing the virus to continue evolving we greatly increase risk it mutates into something the current vaccine cannot prevent.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#797

Post by halfjoking »

thehappypm wrote: post #321
orangegreen wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really about you. It's about preventing other, more vulnerable people from getting sick. Living in a society means giving up some of your freedoms in exchange for security, and getting vaccinated as a way to help other people should be part of that exchange.

I don't agree with this, in general. We shouldn't give up our freedoms. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Benjamin Franklin) We should be motivated by a desire to help one another, and resist when freedoms are removed. That being said, if businesses want to exercise their freedoms to make life more difficult for the unvaccinated, s…

Exactly. Any business can choose to restrict unvaccinated. Any business can fire their employees for being unvaccinated if they want to.

The problem is New York will fine any businesses not checking vaccine passes and are forcing them to turn away unvaccinated.

Ok - so can the unvaccinated start their own restaurants of only unvaccinated? Can we open up our own hospitals with the nurses that were fired from mandates? Can we setup our own public transportation? Why not?

Is it because of the scare mongering about variants? Well people who took the vaccine are also causing variants, actually their supposedly super-high levels of vaccine antibodies are not stopping breakthroughs that much - so they are putting evolutionary pressure on the virus to mutate and evade those antibodies. It makes no sense to blame the unvaccinated for that. So why take away unvaccinated freedoms to setup their own restaurants, services etc? That's not liberty for a business or anyone really, that's fascism.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#798

Post by Filligree »

niij wrote: post #644
dabeeeenster wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HOA? Why do HNers habitually use obscure acronyms?! So frustrating!

It's not obscure. HOA means Home Owners Association, Google "HOA definition" for more information. From a cursory search ~25% of Americans are a part of one.

I’m not American, and I’ve never heard of one over here.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#799

Post by pokstad »

ssully wrote: post #776
pokstad wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power to tax is the power to destroy. The power to exclude is the power to coerce. Society is coercing people into taking the vaccine by requiring it for any activities outside the home. Want to go to the grocery store? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to go to Disneyland? Get a vaccine or wear a mask. Want to attend a conference? Get a vaccine or take a test and wear a mask. The mask and testing mandates are an ef…

Your post sounds pretty good, especially when you don't conclude on what we are allowing by "letting them be", which is to continue the spread of a deadly disease.

There’s a vaccine that has an effective rate of well over 99.9% and is free for everyone in America. The “continued spread of a deadly disease” is among those who choose not to vaccinate. The vast majority of people getting seriously ill and dying in America chose to not get vaccinated AND not changing their habits.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#800

Post by xdennis »

s0rce wrote: post #762
xiphias2 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I now travel to the US and pay for one if I want as a non-US resident? So far that was impossible.

Undocumented people have been able to get the vaccine in California without paying so you can get it and don't need to pay.

What if I still have documents?
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