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Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

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Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#791

Post by syshum »

atoav wrote: post #437
syshum wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>which force working employees into poverty I think you have a widely unorthodox defination of "force" as no one is forced to take any job at any wage. Force in the equation would come from the government using the threat of government violence to force a wage on a business owner. A person that voluntary accepts a job for X wage is not "forced" to do so.

Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This means to make this a free market many nations did the reasonable thing and introduced measures like minimum wages and unemployment benefits. This way when you loose your job the balance of power evens out a l…

>>15 USD is still less than if you had adjusted the original minimum wage for inflation, so come on.

This is a myth that is often repeated, but I have yet to see it proven.

The Original Federal Min Wage was passed in 1938 and was $0.38 per hour, Adjusted to 2021 that would be $7.14

In 1981 it was raised to $3.35, in 2021 dollars that would be $9.76

In 2009 it was raise to where it is today, $7.25 ($0.66 lower than a pure inflation increase should have been) and is 9.26 in 2021 dollars

So if you want to do a pure inflation adjusted min wage it would be no more than $10 not $15

I can find at no point in the history of Federal minimum wage would have wage inflation adjusted be more than $15/hr today. I can debate the merits of minimum wage, the ethics, etc, but we have to be having a debate with actual facts not political talking points.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#792

Post by syshum »

rbg246 wrote: post #418
syshum wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>which force working employees into poverty I think you have a widely unorthodox defination of "force" as no one is forced to take any job at any wage. Force in the equation would come from the government using the threat of government violence to force a wage on a business owner. A person that voluntary accepts a job for X wage is not "forced" to do so.

You don't think needing to survive forces or keeping your human dignity forces you to find a job? That's the way I see it.

I think we as a society have put in place lots of social programs, to the tune of billions and billions of dollars a year to ensure "survival" is not at play here.

Further at the end of the day wages are not the problem, cost of living is, economic value of labor is. Waving a magic wand and proclaiming a new min wage does not resolve those root issue, it may in some limited circumstances help a few people for a limited amount of time, but you need to resolve the root issue which mandated minimum wages increases is not going to do and often harms the very people you are looking to "help"

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#793

Post by syshum »

atoav wrote: post #778
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This is, to begin with, not true. It's common for small businesses to be operating at the margin. If you don't have someone making the sandwiches then you don't have revenue and you still have rent and utilities…

> You can pick the one that pays the most. Oh sweet summer child. When you are in debt and struggle to survive on a day to day basis, time is your enemy You cannot afford not to take a job. And if you are lucky enough to be able afford it today, you might not tomorrow. Another thing: many people need more than one job as it is now. Guess what: if you pay people a decent living wage more people can actually get jobs,…

>>and they are an issue in many big cities

Housing is an issue in big cities largely due to government policies that both limit inventory (building and zoning regulations) and limit profitability (rent control) that make is extremely undesirable to create new housing.

The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#794

Post by syshum »

dmitriid wrote: post #750
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This is, to begin with, not true. It's common for small businesses to be operating at the margin. If you don't have someone making the sandwiches then you don't have revenue and you still have rent and utilities…

> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists.

I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia that the rest of the world should look to as a model.

I do not want the US to be Europe, that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism

If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Stop trying to make the US into the EU

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#795

Post by dmitriid »

syshum wrote: post #794
dmitriid wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is, to begin with, not true. I will never stop being amazed at how Americans argue that something decent is wrong, or untrue, or even impossible... when Europe exists.

I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia that the rest of the world should look to as a model. I do not want the US to be Europe, that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location. Stop trying…

> I will never stop being amazed that European's think Europe is a Utopia

I never said Europe was Utopia. All I said was, decent living.

> that is nothing short of a dystopia for me a person that wants Individualism, and individual freedom. rejecting Authoritarianism and Collectivism

Ah yes. Says the person from a country where charities stop giving aid to poor African countries and redirect their aid to Americans.

> If people in the US like the EU model soo much then i encourage them to expatriate to that location.

Those who have the means to, do.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#796

Post by atoav »

syshum wrote: post #793
atoav wrote: post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can pick the one that pays the most. Oh sweet summer child. When you are in debt and struggle to survive on a day to day basis, time is your enemy You cannot afford not to take a job. And if you are lucky enough to be able afford it today, you might not tomorrow. Another thing: many people need more than one job as it is now. Guess what: if you pay people a decent living wage more people can actually get jobs,…

>>and they are an issue in many big cities Housing is an issue in big cities largely due to government policies that both limit inventory (building and zoning regulations) and limit profitability (rent control) that make is extremely undesirable to create new housing. The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

> The solution to this is NOT government housing but less government regulations about building new housing

Where and when did this work? Have you any examples?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#797

Post by sqrt17 »

deburo wrote: post #618
blihp wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10% margin also often doesn't tell the whole story of how they make their money. Nearly since its inception, a substantial portion of McDonald's long term profit came from the appreciation of the real estate the stores were built on. Operating a business on it just made it cash flow positive during the holding period. So it was essentially a REIT that happened to operate a fast food chain. Even for many mom-and-pop…

>If they honestly can't afford to pay a living wage It's not logical to kill businesses by arbitrarily raising the minimum wage. Do you think the people they employ are better off not working at all? These people may not have a decent enough salary, but they get to work as opposed to staying at home and degenerate (mentally and physically). I always thought the better solution is to help them financially in other way…

Most likely they wouldn't stay at home but either would start their own small business (which would be more competitive now since people with employees have to pay them a livable wage) or, if they can be supported by their partner and not work, do something that's important for society but doesn't pay well (e.g. caring for your family, or for people in your community, writing, creating art).

I'd call it a wrong conclusion to assume that the thing that people do to unwind after a busy workday or what people do who are unable to work due to depression is the same as what people undertake when they can sustain themselves without spending the majority of their waking hours commuting and working.

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#798

Post by [deleted] »

Frondo wrote: post #768
WalterBright wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to do with your claim that poor people "generally much, much better at managing it than anyone else".

I don't see how a news entertainment program you saw many years ago actually addresses how well poor people are at making the most of their very limited dollars.

[deleted]

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#799

Post by newdude116 »

syshum wrote: post #791
atoav wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the job market is not a free market, because not getting a job is existential for those seeking the job, while the company can usually just survive when a position is not filled for a certain time. This means to make this a free market many nations did the reasonable thing and introduced measures like minimum wages and unemployment benefits. This way when you loose your job the balance of power evens out a l…

>>15 USD is still less than if you had adjusted the original minimum wage for inflation, so come on. This is a myth that is often repeated, but I have yet to see it proven. The Original Federal Min Wage was passed in 1938 and was $0.38 per hour, Adjusted to 2021 that would be $7.14 In 1981 it was raised to $3.35, in 2021 dollars that would be $9.76 In 2009 it was raise to where it is today, $7.25 ($0.66 lower than a…

What is inflation?

If computer processing power becomes cheaper an cheaper, but real estate housing value double in a decade, we have 2% inflation?

Re: Labor shortage or terrible jobs?

#800

Post by [deleted] »

barry-cotter wrote: post #623
monkeycantype wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Au, current ceo at my work recently complained how frustrating it is having 16 y.o. s manage stores. Hmm wonder how that problem happened?

In a hot labour market you take much worse employees because you can’t get anybody better at the price you’re willing to pay.

[deleted]
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