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Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

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Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#791

Post by mathattack »

igorstellar wrote: post #731
mathattack wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is disastrously to Care when you are surrounded by an army that doesn’t.

Why so? I think this is the way to be promoted/lead things. You don't have to live and die with your project but there are definitely a few opportunities that are opening up if "you care and army that doesn't". I believe calling your colleagues "army that doesn't care" is a bit disrespectful and this is what is wrong with "I care so much" people at big companies. upd: I did generalize "I care so much" people as well;…

Examples of what happens when you are an outlier on caring:

- Colleagues push back on providing status, while simultaneously asking for a long roadmap of your future requests.

- Promotions for your best people get blocked by peers because “Not enough time at level, and others will complain”

- Punishment is much higher for picking up a dropped ball “and not following process” than leaving the ball on the floor.

In the end, if you’re outnumbered too much, it’s a road to frustration rather than success.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#792

Post by tdeck »

danans wrote: post #643
JohnCarmack wrote: post #586

I can certainly see a lot of parallels with Oculus / Facebook. Perhaps unusually, I actually wanted FB to impress itself more strongly on Oculus post acquisition because, frankly, Oculus was a bit of a mess. Instead, Oculus was given an enormous amount of freedom for many years. Personally, nobody ever told me what to do, even though I was willing to "shut up and soldier" if necessary -- they bought that capability!…

> people who Really Care about their work with the Just A Job crowd These aren't discrete categories. There are a lot of people who care about their work and also recognize that at the end of the day, it is a job, and the reality is that they can only play a role in shaping the outcome, not dictate it per their vision. Also, depending on the job, the team, the project, and the product, people can go from one of those…

It's also possible to really care in a way that doesn't match up with what the company wants. Let's say you work at YouTube and really care about the user experience - you probably wouldn't want to introduce first one, then multiple mid-roll ads. If that's your job, "really caring" is going to burn you out.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#793

Post by JabavuAdams »

ck425 wrote: post #173
izacus wrote: post #99

This is an amazing post - it describes exactly how bad manager looks like and what kind of expectations does he have from his employees. No emergency PTO (despite being a benefit), ability to just get rid of people who don't suit him, cursing at people, not having a proper work/life balance. It just keeps on giving. And all for what? A mapping application having features which really don't save lives 99% of the time.

I agree with all of that except the swearing part. Is swearing in work a big deal in US? I'm Scottish (even worse Glaswegian) so perhaps have a skewed view.

Really depends on the sub-industry. In big pharma "That's not a good idea -- it's not going to work b/c blah blah blah" is a scathing rebuke. In games / media "What the fuck is going on with this server?" is background noise. I should say was the kids seem different to me -- maybe I'm out of touch.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#794

Post by jain9rajat »

Its amazing how the author talks about Google employees being "entitled" but he himself was showing entitlement after being acquired. Entitled in the sense they can continue to operate as before, with no accountability and involvement from Google, and start getting perks and paychecks from them and hire and fire at will. While not understanding (beforehand)

You are getting acquired, for God's sake. You are under Google's scrutiny and Google will be accountable for what you do - even legally. So yes, there are going to be legal issues. Yes, Google is going to involve itself and it is going to follow those policies.

Basically such startup founders want to have the cake and eat it as well. Want to get all the economic benefits of the acquisition, then leverage google in customer acquisition perks etc. but still want google to leave them alone. NO matter how much promise is there pre-acquisition, it is just not going to happen. And that is the way it should be.

If they want money with independence, ask google to fund them like a VC instead of asking for an acquisition.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#795

Post by JabavuAdams »

jrockway wrote: post #290

He sounds kind of toxic and out of touch, and didn't really mention why he stayed so long despite that being the title of the article. You know someone is Up To Something when they rant about HR restricting their speech. It's weird to me that he's now a free agent, rants about how people complained that "I used a four letter word, my analogy was not PC, my language was not PG", and yet doesn't indulge in his blog pos…

God, the game industry must have wrecked my brain. I read TFA and was like "Hells yes, I want to work with this guy!" ... but reading some of the criticisms ... huh interesting.

Then again, there's a real high to being part of a team of 10 people who are shipping a product that people love all across the globe. Interesting. I'm definitely not a big-co guy.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#796

Post by JabavuAdams »

kazen44 wrote: post #738
guytv wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli here. cultural gaps are very much alive and kicking During my career I've worked with people around the world, all in the Tech industry. Israeli-Californian cultural gap is huge. It is made worse by the fact that Israelis usually have a good English level, some even have an okay accent - which makes their US counterpart expect them to use the same communication etiquette they are used to. Californians will go…

an old coworker of mine used to see conflict as a good thing because it means people are invested in whatever is being discussed. I tend to agree with him.

I've heard this a lot, tended to practice it, and have one divorce to show for it.

I come from a family of direct argumentative people. Many people do not, and this style of communication will shut them down, leading to suffering and ultimately only one side being heard. I'm more ambivalent about the value of directness now.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#797

Post by jodrellblank »

sergiosgc wrote: post #175
madeofpalk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, I will never do this. I havent done this since I was very very young at my first job and i didn't know better. I couldn't think of anything sader or more depressing that giving away my own personal time for someone else. I'm not going to work on the weekend. I've got much better things to do, like play video games or literall…

Let me give you the perspective from the other side of the trench: I never ask my employees for overtime, never control their work hours. The typical work week that organically arises out of this is about 35 hours. I would absolutely fire anyone who would close the laptop for the weekend and left a critical operation pending on Friday. It's about work ethics and personal responsibility of the outcome of personal work…

You don't see any doublethink in never asking for overtime, never controlling their work hours, and firing them if they don't work the overtime hours you want at the time you want?

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#798

Post by guyzero »

pid_0 wrote: post #750
guyzero wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being not politically correct myself, I think there are significant cultural gaps between the west coast American standard and people from Israel (Bardin is Isralei). With the caveat that this is my experience only, Israelis are more blunt, direct and often openly critical vs Americans, especially Californians. They're often right and all the ones I've worked with have been very smart, but the way a me…

Yep this is true. California (and if we are being honest, liberal) types will do anything and everything to avoid any kind of conflict. I can't stand it. Israelis are straight to the point without the typical American BS. I have been on a conference call with Israelis and Americans and every 15 seconds the Israelis would go on mute to complain how stupid the Americans sounded. They were speaking a lot but effectively…

Arguably this is a sign of an Israeli tendency to complain about things and arrogance. Maybe they were right, maybe they weren't.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#799

Post by teraku »

andrew_ wrote: post #225

It's astounding in so far as how unique this conversation is to tech. I've worked as a pipefitter, electrician's apprentice, and general construction hand in the past - I could only imagine how it would go telling my former foreman that I'd like to head off to yoga in the morning for an hour. Big jobs that require overtime to complete get folks to work that overtime - even within a union. If it's not you, it's someon…

That is so true.

I work in IT of a non-Tech company and it's sometimes crazy to think that just because our industry is so short-handed on IT people we get paid so much more compared to the guys in the company "doing the work". I think it's probably fine because we also play a vital role in the company's success and it's good taking pride in your work, but some of my colleagues act like they are the reason we are making any profit. They are running the tool that enables our sales, but they are not the ones doing the actual selling. Just because the company has been around longer than there has been commodity sales order software and they are still running it does not mean they are the cause for all the revenue in their tool.

We have it amazingly well and we should make sure to be nice to other people, especially since we are privileged.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#800

Post by Rebelgecko »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #481
scrose wrote: post #196

If you’re a new engineer reading this article: Startups are talked about as if work-life balance doesn’t or shouldn’t exist. It only doesn’t exist if you (1) choose for that to be the case or (2) Have a manager like this who holds things like firing you if ‘someone better comes along’ over your head. There are plenty of startups where you can put in your ~8 hours and call it a day 99% of the time and the business wil…

How do you check for and avoid (2) in new grad interview stages? Especially when you are not assigned to a team when applying

Ask people how many hours per week they work. It might vary a bit from team to team but you'll roughly get an idea of corporate work/life balance
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