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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#791

Post by theshrike79 »

paraselene_ wrote: post #780
theshrike79 wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well. American fireplaces in general are a joke. You are just spending way too much energy and not really storing it anywhere except the air around it. They are built to look good, not to actually heat anything properly. Check any Nord…

Or you know, instead of having a whole fireplace, just get a kerosene heater? Enough to heat a whole room in case of power&gas outages, last long enough through the night on one fill, and kerosene can be had at a gas station.

Pretty much anything actually built to heat stuff is better than the all-looks-no-function "fireplaces" the Americans seem to be in love with. The ones they like to mount their TVs over, despite the neck pain.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#792

Post by masklinn »

mikesabbagh wrote: post #270

It is surprising that windfarms are freezing. Here in Quebec, we have windfarms that have more than 6 months a year of snow and temperatures much below the freezing point. How can they freeze? they dont use water or gaz or oil. It is only a fan and dynamo. Did water seep inside and freeze it?

Same reason why the coal and gas plants froze, and pipes are bursting in apparemment buildings, and houses are unable to retain any heat: cheaping out.

Since cold is a rare event, Texans figure they can save a penny by making nothing cold-resistant, then skimp on maintenance, all while bragging they have the cheapest rates of the country.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#793

Post by jdc »

gregw2 wrote: post #213
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

My dad's heated with nothing but wood for at least a couple winters. The fireplace is never lit, but he'd run his airtight stoves would non-stop.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#794

Post by rebuilder »

hinkley wrote: post #713
kevinmchugh wrote: post #702

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interior or central chimneys make more sense to me than ones against an exterior wall, and they seem common enough in houses of a certain vintage at least. If your chimney is on an outer wall, doesn't it radiate heat to the outdoors?

The ones on the outside can use outside air to go up the chimney, avoiding the problem listed above. Harder to do with inside chimneys. Last place I rented with a fireplace, there was a metal door in brickwork below it in the basement. It wasn’t until after I moved out that I realized what it was for.

I think if you're having to worry about makeup air cooling the house down than your fireplace heats it, that's less to do with chimney placement and more with how the fireplace is designed. I.e a gas flame in a fireplace with no appreciable thermal mass and a chimney that pipes the heat straight out is where I'd look to first as a problem.

A massive stone fireplace that's heated with a single load of fuel, then has its chimney flaps closed to keep the heat from escaping, is going to be much more efficient. I wonder if maybe the fireplaces in many parts of the USA are actually designed to not heat the house too much, given the usual weather in e.g. Texas.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#795

Post by devwastaken »

kelnos wrote: post #502
gregw2 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

In 1996 (or thereabouts), I lived in Maryland, and my family lost power for 6 days due to a snow/ice storm that took out a ton of power lines (water froze on them and the added weight pulled them down). We had no natural gas service, and our running water was provided by a well in the backyard that had an electric pump. So no electricity, heat, or running water for 6 days in ~20-30°F weather. (Fortunately we'd prepar…

We've had a ridiculous cold snap in northern U.S. the last couple of weeks, where every day is at least -15f and every night -30f, not including wind-chill. So much so that 8f out feels warm now.

Have not had even a blip of outage for anything. Last year I believe something damaged a large power pole and we were out for 3 hours.

If warmer states took notes on how north states do it we wouldn't be in this pickle I assume. Also warm states need to bury their water lines deeper.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#796

Post by masklinn »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #63

Lots of folks in these comments seem to want to use this event to litigate wind vs. solar vs. gas vs. nuclear vs. coal, but it seems like, across the board, power generation facilities in Texas were simply unprepared to operate in such low temperatures. All of these technologies can and do work well in very cold climates.

> Lots of folks in these comments seem to want to use this event to litigate wind vs. solar vs. gas vs. nuclear vs. coal

That’s simply not true. The only people “litigating” do so in response to dishonest indictments of wind power.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#797

Post by masklinn »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #777

You'd probably be more comfortable if you left your house and went winter camping. Surprisingly, it's not that difficult to stay warm while winter camping, you just have to be doing something: cooking, eating, exploring, talking. Learn neat skills like: keep your water in a cooler so it doesn't freeze; pee in a nalgene rather than go outside to pee, then keep the nalgene in your sleeping bag to retain heat; eating to…

That requires winter camping gear. Which you could use inside your home if you have it in the first place.

It’s also a bit late to learn winter camping if you’re already stranded with neither electricity nor gear.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#798

Post by tacon »

roenxi wrote: post #782
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

It is annoying when this sort of event happens and everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. It makes more sense to be talking about the 2011 outages in terms of what went wrong than the 2021 ones - because we have actual information on 2011 instead of "things went wrong!" now. I want to thank you personally for injecting a PDF into the discussion, but also positively asser…

Since the Texas Legislature is in its once every two year session right now, and four million Texans are pissed off, it will be fun to see if new laws result this cycle.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#799

Post by [deleted] »

austincheney wrote: post #512
svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

I was out for 17 hours from yesterday to mid afternoon today. Slept through the 0deg weather without power and yet still kept the house at 43deg internally without a heat source. Here is our simi-successful attempt to survive. * boarded up all the windows and doors with sheets, curtains, and heavy drop clothes * limit going outside to fewest essential trips * close all bedrooms and abandon them. All pets and occupant…

[deleted]

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#800

Post by Dylan16807 »

confidantlake wrote: post #703
TheJoeMan wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I agree state's legislatures did not prepare. But maybe that shows why a body of politicians is not prepped for engineering nuances. Maybe they should have adequately applied leverage to the power companies to "push" them to better practices rather than trying to fine and inspect and regulate which is an inherently "pulling" option which the companies will always try to weasel out of. This argument to incentivize…

Under 10 ppm you get a carrot. Then drinking water will still be 9.99. How is it any different?

> Under 10 ppm you get a carrot. Then drinking water will still be 9.99.

But also the company decides that they're okay with only getting that carrot 95% of the time because filtering costs money. So 5% of the time it's much worse.

The real power of a stick over a carrot is the incentives can be much bigger. If you're selling widgets, and 1% catching on fire just means you're paid 1% less, you don't care very much. If you're fined 50 times the purchase price for each widget that catches fire, you care a lot.

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