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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#791

Post by leppr »

sorbits wrote: post #342
tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that this aspect of the conversation so often gets replaced by everything else. This is (IMO) the most important point about digital currency - the promise of providing consumers in unstable economies the chance to convert to a more stable currency without government intrusion. We're still not there, but that should be the north star for crypto (again, in my opinion).

Normally the government leverages its power to keep its currency stable. If a country fails at that, the residents tend to switch to another country’s currency, for example USD is widely accepted in countries with unstable currencies, and this makes sense, since a lot of commodity prices are set in USD. What we have seen with crypto currencies are extreme volatility, not useful to base a country’s economy on, and bec…

I agree assets with fixed inflation, be them cryptocurrencies or precious metals, make poor currencies, but some cryptocurrency projects are actually working on algorithmically price-stable currencies (ie. a cryptocurrency with a dynamic supply, not pegged to another fiat currency).

When/if the supply problem is solved, and a more environnementally friendly consensus mechanism than PoW developed, there won't be many arguments against adopting cryptocurrencies as the default payment method.

[1]: https://debaseonomics.io/, https://reflexer.finance/

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#792

Post by koonsolo »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #702
koonsolo wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. So where is it? I've been using the internet since 1997. Banks had the chance to make it. I read here all the time "a single database would be a better solution". So where is the single database? Where is the instant money transfer? Where is the free money transfer over country borders? My wife lived in US for a while, she is now in EU. She still has some bank account there with a few thousand dollars on it.…

> Where is the free money transfer over country borders? I use a major US bank. They offer $0 wire transfers to EU accounts. Wire goes out same-day. Would much rather do that than transfer to a crypto exchange, convert to crypto (with fee), send crypto (with fee), exchange crypto on the other end (with fee), and the transfer to other bank.

Alright, can you send some 0 fee, instant money to Cuba, Nepal, Burundi, Bolivia?

> Wire goes out same-day.

That it goes "out" the same day is pretty obvious. That it arrives 1 second later a bit less.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#793

Post by dorgo »

MrMan wrote: post #732
ardy42 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Strong currencies are not the solution to poor governance. Good governance and democracy makes a country and its currency strong. Not vice versa. That's a good point. Too many people propose individualist solutions to social problems, and all their "solution" would do is make the social problem worse. I think that stems often stems from an overzealous faith in free markets, which leads to a distorted idea that indi…

This is why I called Bitcoin “naive and antisocial”. I perceive a long-standing willingness on the part of crypto proponents to willfully ignore why monetary policy exists and how it is tied to society’s needs. Self-governance cannot be cast aside in favor of a currency managed by a network of miners remote from the Economic output, debt and other expressions of local social economy. I called it evil and I wasn’t bei…

(self-)governance is big topic in crypto. I predict that crypto will reinvent all the societal structures and processes to form a digital market+government+jurisdiction because a currency alone can't address all the problems you mentioned.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#794

Post by [deleted] »

intenex wrote: post #778
vishnugupta wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... We don’t even need to make up hypothetical examples. We have a live one in Greece. The Greek citizens went through this exact ordeal for the exact reason you stated. They couldn’t print EUR and the ECB wouldn’t extent monetary support to Greek government.

Wait - so why are other countries like Germany in the EU fine despite also not being able to arbitrarily issue their own national fiat currency?

[deleted]

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#795

Post by adrianN »

leppr wrote: post #789
gbear605 wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A market doesn’t work in countries without a strong government, since for a market to work, there needs to be faith that the other party isn’t going to break the rules of the market. If you’re trying to sell your goods and someone comes in with a gun, then you have to hope that either you have a gun or can call police. If you have to resort to using a gun, then that leads to huge costs and lots of dead people.

That's precisely the main innovation of Bitcoin. Without the aid of a central authority, people are able to decide on a set of rules that must be respected to play in the market. People can switch to different "markets" with different rules at will. The value of these markets is itself decided through a free market. Given a sufficient level of digitization, it's not hard to imagine how many kind of real world markets…

Except for very narrow use cases I don't see how the rules you can enforce in a digital space like a blockchain network help when you don't have a stable meatspace system of law. A bitcoin transaction can be mathematically as bullet proof as you want, but that doesn't help make your meatspace assets any more bullet proof.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#796

Post by imcoconut »

arcticbull wrote: post #229
danhak wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Housing is a function of city council zoning policy... This is the laughably reductionist take that predictably appears on HN when folks think the dynamics of San Francisco apply everywhere. Housing costs have nothing to do with the Fed? Really? You don’t believe record low mortgage rates are driving demand at all? Nah, it must be city council zoning policy that is sending home prices soaring all over the country—-…

I'm sorry you're just wrong about that though. On average, the price per square foot of housing in the US is exactly the same now as it was in the 1970s, on an inflation adjusted basis. [1] In major metros, that number is higher, because of city policy, but on average, the number is flat. That means on an inflation adjusted basis in rural areas houses are cheaper per square foot. Once you take into account that inter…

You're not necessarily wrong that the causes of the increases in prices for things like healthcare, etc. are due to policy issues, among other things. But you can kind of make that argument for any good or service - that that the increase in the price of x is a "specific industry/policy issue" and not a "monetary issue".

That doesn't negate the fact that people are still paying higher prices. If the fed is mandated with controlling the increase in prices then it is still upon them to address it, no? The fact that monetary policy is not a primary cause of the good/service specific inflation is irrelevant.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#797

Post by octocop »

ivalm wrote: post #302
octocop wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it’s in your best interest to buy and never sell, why would anyone want to use it for exchange? Define best interest here. I mean saving money and investing it to make more money is also in everyone's best interest, but that is certainly not the case. So why is that?

Investing money in productive enterprise is the thing that is in societal benefit. Investing money in a virtual asset that has no other benefit and massive ecological costs is not a benefit.

We will see. As far as I can tell, it's the productive enterprises and everyday people that are ruining the environment. But hey, your comment sounded smart, which is the the real goal here.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#798

Post by octocop »

Jtsummers wrote: post #311
octocop wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it’s in your best interest to buy and never sell, why would anyone want to use it for exchange? Define best interest here. I mean saving money and investing it to make more money is also in everyone's best interest, but that is certainly not the case. So why is that?

There's a difference between investing in companies, states, and individuals (stocks, bonds, loans), saving in a bank (depending on the structure is usually tied to some kind of investment like those, but not controlled by the saver), and hoarding something under the mattress. Holding BTC is the same as the last one. The holdings are not invested in anything remotely productive, it's just speculation on the future va…

I would have to disagree with you. Seeing what has happened to crypto the last few years, it's very apparent that things are changing. Everyone on here is talking like bitcoin or any other crypto is the disease and not a symptom. I believe that it's merely a symptom, a anarchy of sort, against the old ways.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#799

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

nexthash wrote: post #591
tboyd47 wrote: post #547

It's important for people to read the actual press release: https://mstr.cd/3tLaPZM There's good info here which will be new info to many. Why did they do this? It turns out that about a third of Nigerians report using or holding cryptocurrency (!). https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoptio... Second place are Vietnam and the Phillipines. For all, the #1 reason was for remittances. Haven't we all h…

Set this chart to "all" and tell me that this price movement is not a bubble. There is no earthly reason for why a "BitCoin" is worth $47,459.66 as of this post. https://www.coindesk.com/price/bitcoin Cryptocurrency adoption in 3rd world countries like Nigeria, Vietnam, and the Philippines is not a good thing. It's actually really sad, because it means they cannot rely on or trust their country's currency. Therefore,…

> Set this chart to "all" and tell me that this price movement is not a bubble.

If all that was necessary to reliably predict a price was looking at a chart, we would all live in a very different world.

Oh and BTW, phrase `why a "BitCoin"` makes it very clear that you are not familiar with this field and have done very little research.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#800

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #12
sschueller wrote: post #5

I don't want mastercard supporting crypto. I want the merchants and payment providers supporting crypto so I do not have to use mastercard and their "rules". If I want to pay for porn or send a donation to wikileaks I do not want mastercard/paypal or anyone else other than the government (if it's legal I should be allowed to pay for it) deciding if that is ok.

Bitcoin transaction fees are currently around $8. My credit card pays me 2% to use it. No one wants to use the Bitcoin blockchain for average transactions. No one is buying Bitcoin as anything other than a speculative investment right now.

Made a transaction last week, paid 0.50 $. Transaction went through just fine. What am I doing wrong?
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