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Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

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Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#791

Post by 72deluxe »

ianhowson wrote: post #650
Teknoman117 wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully expect any reduction in costs for Apple will get sent to their shareholders, not the consumers.

Bingo. Estimates vary wildly, but I've seen figures saying that Axx CPUs cost Apple about $50 each. Even if it's more like $100, that's still an insane amount of additional profit per unit to be extracted. They don't need to deal with single-supplier hassles and they get much more control over what cores go into their SoC. This is sort-of-OK for consumers but amazing for Apple and its shareholers.

They’ll pass the savings onto the consumers though right?? I mean, a fully specced MacBook costs over £3000 which seems expensive...

Here’s hoping anyway!!

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#792

Post by madeofpalk »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

> I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers

That's not this presentation - when they actually ship hardware (transition kit not included) - then they'll talk performance.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#793

Post by eugeniub »

sschueller wrote: post #298

They will lock down their PCs like the iPhone. Good luck booting anything other than macos or getting you Mac fixed anywhere other than Apple. No thanks, switching back to Linux. I'm done with this crap.

> They will lock down their PCs like the iPhone.

I have heard this claim for 10 years now. Still hasn't come true.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#794

Post by notafraudster »

AlexandrB wrote: post #645
kps wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a surprise to anyone paying attention; NeXTSTEP had run on 68K/x86/Sparc/PA-RISC. Removing architecture support would have been remarkable. What's important, for those paying attention, is that Apple promoted PowerPC emulation with the first x86 Macs in OS X 10.4 and then removed it after 10.6. If you think Apple won't screw you again, well, go ahead, it's your money. [Dis]claimer: I have no long or short i…

> [Dis]claimer: I have no long or short in AAPL. Anyone posting or voting in this thread should similarly disclose. It’s extremely weird to me to assume that an opinion someone posts in an online message board will be heavily influenced by their stock portfolio.

It seems to me that the reverse is more likely at the scale of most people on HN: people emotionally invested in a brand use disposable income to buy shares of the brand (or, the reverse).

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#795

Post by eyesee »

monocasa wrote: post #509
CharlesW wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Logic isn't worth much without plugins… Rosetta 2 cross-compiles Intel binaries to ARM. Why would VST/AU plug-in binaries be an exception?

Will an ARM version of Logic support loading x86 plugins? Last time Rosetta was on a process by process basis, so you might have to make some unfortunate choices. Edit: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou... > The system prevents you from mixing arm64 code and x86_64 code in the same process. Rosetta translation applies to an entire process, including all code modules that the process loads d…

Apple has pushed XPC architecture for plug-ins for several years and has announced that these plug-ins will work in Rosetta for a Native host app. Audio Units will work as well.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#796

Post by pcwalton »

vessenes wrote: post #305

Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…

Rust isn't behind on ARM, except for SIMD intrinsics on stable, which are not things most languages (e.g. Java, Go) have at all for any architecture.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#797

Post by Xixi »

fomine3 wrote: post #276
Xixi wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The A12Z is already shipping in the latest iPad Pro, so it's not like its performance is some unknown quantity: benchmarks are aplenty... Although I guess this dev kit could run at a different frequency, and have more/less memory bandwidth. Performance should still roughly be that of the iPad Pro. The A12Z is itself only a small update on the A12X from 2018, so it's basically two years behind whatever will ship in ac…

I expect DTK performs better than iPad Pro because it can supply more power and has more thermal budget (maybe still has active cooling fan).

It might be running at a somewhat higher frequency, because why not. But the DTK is not a production model, so I don't expect Apple to spend significant resources on it. After all the A12Z should be good enough as-is.

You have to consider that Apple engineers are busy designing new SoCs for the entire Mac line-up: optimizing the A12Z for the DTK is probably not their top priority at the moment. They will want to wow people with a new MacBook (Air? Pro? ?) this fall: that SoC should be their priority...

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#798

Post by cletus »

Teknoman117 wrote: post #642
ianhowson wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. I'm predicting the opposite: you won't actually see any difference. Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gain…

I fully expect any reduction in costs for Apple will get sent to their shareholders, not the consumers.

Think of it this way:

1. This is risky for consumers. Whereas the PPC->x86 move was clearly a benefit to consumers given how PPC was lagging Intel at the time, x86 had proven performance and a massive install base. It was low risk to consumers. This? Less so. Sure iOS devices run on ARM but now you lose x86 compatibility. Consumers need to be "compensated" for this risk. This means lower prices and/or better performance, at least in the short-to-medium term; and

1. This move is a risk for Apple. They could lose market share doing this if consumers reject the transition. They wouldn't undertake it if the rewards didn't justify the risk. They will ultimately capture more profit from this I'm sure but because of (1) I think they may well subsidize this move in the short term with more performance per $.

But I fully agree with an earlier comment here: Apple has a proven track record with chip shipments and schedules here so more vertically integrated laptop hardware is going to be a win, ultimately.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#799

Post by bhaisaab »

lrem wrote: post #492
ksec wrote: post #258

Apple ported many Pro Apps to ARM , especially their Logic Pro, Photoshop and they were showcasing Maya on ARM. That is about as Pro as it gets for Mac. That reads to me Apple isn't going to have Intel for some high end Pro machine. They intended to go all in with ARM. i.e There will be a Mac Pro with High TDP ARM Chip. I wonder what are the owner of Mac Pro feeling now having just spend a $5K+ Mac Pro with Intel. Qu…

Re 1: I believe iCloud is hosted on Google Cloud, isn't it?

http://cloudstack.apache.org/users.html

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#800

Post by acjohnson55 »

ianhowson wrote: post #561
vessenes wrote: post #305

Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…

> So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. I'm predicting the opposite: you won't actually see any difference. Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gain…

This doesn't match my experience. Web browsing kills my battery life, and my assumption is that it's driven by JS.
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