Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work • Hacker News Board

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#791

Post by chabad360 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

noelsusman wrote: post #617

neonate wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that is such a clear analysis that someone should transcribe it. Here's the main part of what Naval says: "If Google, Facebook, and Twitter had been smart about this, they would not have picked sides. They would have said "We're publishers. Whatever goes through our pipes goes through our pipes. If it's illegal, we'll take it down. Give us a court order. Otherwise we don't touch it." It's like the phone company.…

Google, Facebook, and Twitter are not "literally picking" the next president or the next congressman. That is delusional.

Obviously they're not "literally" picking the next president, however they have full control on what opinions you see first, and they have utilized that ability to tilt many (yes, very many) people's opinions (especially those whose understanding of even general politics is superficial) towards a specific candidate.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#792

Post by staticvar » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

An organization is not a tool, it's a group of people thus it reflects the morals of those people. Software is also not a tool, it's a continual process in an organization of people. Just think, is the code you wrote today a rock? Will it survive without you supporting it? I used to think that was the case but after decades have never seen that to be true.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#793

Post by doubleunplussed » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #699

anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

I, as a user, and as an employee am going to refuse to do business with nazis or do business with people who do business again. It’s a free country and I’m allowed to do that, and companies like GitLab can do whatever they want with that information. I’m not the only person like me, and they’re going to have a choice as to whether they want to do business with nazis or so business with people like me. They don’t get…

If someone replies to this comment saying they are a Nazi, are you going to stop using hacker news? Perhaps you're restricting yourself to only paid services, but that still doesn't seem like a tenable plan. Nazis buy coffee from the same cafés as you, they ride the same trains as you.

If you think people should be removed from society altogether, you should vote to make what they're doing illegal so they can all be thrown in jail. Short of that, I don't think it's fair to try to prevent them from participating in society. Jail is the way we prevent people from participating in society, stopping them from using their bank accounts seems like a half-measure.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#794

Post by cloverich » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #571

unscrupulous_sw wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to chime in, I also unknowingly got myself labeled sexist when the topic came up during a random lunch with "friends" (company provided lunch so it had random people from HR and recruiting). Somehow or another the topic of whether going for 50/50 will "lower the bar". So I started thinking about the problem mathematically like any engineer would, with statistical distributions and estimates of the existing pipel…

This parallels my experience. I have repeatedly feigned support for denying employment to white and Asian men to increase our proportional representation of demographics categorized as diverse. The company has set an outcome based goal to have 33% women in tech roles. When the industry is only 20-25% female, such a target is effectively impossible without discrimination. But no one who wants to succeed dares bring th…

Why would it requiring discrimination be a problem?

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#795

Post by dang » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

sterileopinions wrote: post #790

dang wrote: post #2

This is a divisive topic, but the story seems to pass the interesting-new-phenomenon test ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). If you comment, note this guideline: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " We've changed the title in accordance with https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , but if anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more a…

You literally are being dishonest.

It's a routine application of HN's rules. I'm happy to hear what you find objectionable, but you're going to have to be more specific if you want a specific response.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#796

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:29 AM UTC

sterileopinions wrote: post #790

dang wrote: post #2

This is a divisive topic, but the story seems to pass the interesting-new-phenomenon test ( https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html ). If you comment, note this guideline: " Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. " We've changed the title in accordance with https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , but if anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more a…

You literally are being dishonest.

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#797

Post by XorNot » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:30 AM UTC

Gunax wrote: post #512

anarchodev wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use othe…

> Refusing to serve a customer when you disagree with that customer's goal is pretty far from being a "moral arbiter for society." Keep in mind that anyone is free to use other services (or roll their own) and gitlab can't do anything about that. Neither would it be overreaching for the workers building that product to request a say in how it's used. I think this is the crux of the issue. Anyone is of course free to…

Ah the old "too big to fail" argument, alive and well.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#798

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:31 AM UTC

nradov wrote: post #742

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confusing "being a profession" with "having the trappings of a profession".

No I haven't confused anything at all. Perhaps you misunderstood my comment.

Nope. I disagree with your definitions. And I disagree with the definiteness of your definitions. That is, you speak as though this were the only possible definition of "profession". In that, I believe you are in error.

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#799

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

neonate wrote: post #280

anm89 wrote: post #129

I personally think this is awesome. I don't wan't some git hosting startup to be the arbiter of morality for society. The engineers, designers, and PMs shouldn't have an outsized voice in society because they have a specialized useful skillset and ended up on a successful product. If these users are breaking laws, then put them out of business via the courts and sieze the assets (the repos in this case) via legal mea…

Wow, that is such a clear analysis that someone should transcribe it. Here's the main part of what Naval says: "If Google, Facebook, and Twitter had been smart about this, they would not have picked sides. They would have said "We're publishers. Whatever goes through our pipes goes through our pipes. If it's illegal, we'll take it down. Give us a court order. Otherwise we don't touch it." It's like the phone company.…

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work

#800

Post by Dylan16807 » Thu, Oct 17, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

LegitShady wrote: post #716

xenocyon wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: many tech workers want some agency over what they are building and don't want to be forced to work on nefarious applications. I don't seek an outsized claim on society but I do reserve the right to decide what my hands will - or won't - build.

nobody is forcing you to do anything - You're free to find a new job at any time, unless you're indentured and you didn't tell anyone. If you want to decide what to build go into business for yourself. If you're working for someone else you have the choice to either work for them and do what they want or quit.

A job is negotiated. You don't just accept or quit, you have a thousand different ways to come to a compromise with your employer about all sorts of things. It's baffling that so many people insist that the only feedback you can give your employer is quitting on the spot.