So uh, why is everyone focusing on cloudflare?
If you really want to take down 8chan, why not reach out to their colo provider? https://www.digitalrealty.com/data-centers/san-francisco/200...
Terminating Service for 8Chan
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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#792Quick question for everyone who's on board with this.
Do we actually KNOW that banning "hate speech" results in less hateful actions in the short and long term as well?
I'll wait.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#793Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those always sounded like noble, wise words. And maybe they once were. But in age when white supremacy/fascism/nazism/strongman-leader-ism is rising again, I’m no longer sure I agree with them.
> I’m no longer sure I agree with them. the problem is that the alternative is, basically, a white-list of approved ideas. Who makes this white-list? That's the issue with wholesale censorship. A system like that will get gamed as soon as the political winds change one way or another.
Particularly given that a large part of the left and of the medias uses the term "racist", "alt-right" or "facist" very liberally. Worrying about slippery slope isn't rhetorical, we can see people actively oiling up that slope right now.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#794I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…
> Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provide electricity, or your phone provider cut off service or what not. That would be ridiculous, yet it's exactly the situation we're in with internet services. No one wants to just be a utility.
These are flawed comparisons, because water and electricity flow from the utility towards the consumer. If water worked like the internet, and the utility was just a "dumb pipe" that would mean you could pee in my drinking water - I would hope they would disconnect you. And you can be sure that if you mess with the power coming to your house they will disconnect you, too.
If we use the example of a distributed water supply, Cloudpipe would be the company that said:
> yeah sure someone shit in the drinking water coming from my pipes, but I'm not going to tell them to stop, nor tell you who did it so you can tell them yourself.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#795Hey! You're not allowed to say those magic words! - Brilliant, I completely changed my mind now.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#796Earlier quoted context omitted.
> TBH, services like Cloudflare should be free to operate as they please. A publisher is simply not entitled to a CDN If a CDN is necessary to support the site being a public platform that's not a given. This whole "A private company should be able to act like it pleases" that Cloudflare mirrors in their news is an ideological standpoint, not an absolute truth. It's certainly possible to see it differently: If a comp…
> If a company becomes a public platform important for the public discourse or for the function of journalism, regulation and laws can limit what a company can do. Only if there are good arguments for this to be necessary. You didn't mention any. Just being "big" is no reason to get rid of the "free market". Are they abusing their market dominance? Is this a natural monopoly? Are strong network effects in play, as wi…
"We can't get rid of guns, so lets get rid of free speech instead"?
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#797I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…
Its more like someone screaming fire in a crowded building with a megaphone and Rent-a-center just took back their megaphone.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#798A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.
Is there any data to support that this has a net positive effect, other than imaginary feel good points?
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#799In China, there would be no 8Chan at all because if any post is related to massive shooting (probably not shooting because it's not that achievable in China, you get the idea), the post will be arrested and the website will be taken down immediately, and the website owner will be seriously questioned.
But I guess that's not what you want.
On one hand, this seems to be a praiseworthy deed, and they took all the credit. On the other hand, it shows corporations are wielding too much power, which probably they can wielding it to other factions they don't like.
Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan
#800Earlier quoted context omitted.
White supremacist terrorism cannot be directly ideologically challenged by our present political system in America because it is the founding ideology of the country https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_Destroyer
None of the above mentions race. Unless you want to define any territorial conflict between 2 sides as always based on race, when race is only incidental to other differences. The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities. By modern standards, the crusades could also be called racist instead of mostly religious in nature.
> The Rwandan genocide was same race, but different ethnicities.
The idea that “race” is anything other than a set of broad-focus ethnic labels is itself racist in the narrow sense and “racism” in modern common usage encompasses racial bigotry as well as bigotry based around the perceived significance of the classical races or things labelled “races” distinct from ethnicities by the actors involved; though, often, the actors involved in which bigotry do explicit use the language of race even when talking about groupings that, say, Americans see as “ethnic” as distinct from “racial”, because conceptions of what categories are “races” is quite fluid and usually (including in the model applied by the US government, which is far from globally universal) not limited to the classical Negroid, Mongoloid, and Caucausoid races.