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Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

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Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#791

Post by isatty2 »

DKnoll wrote: post #726
DannyBee wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, actually (at least, IMHO). Jobs organization failed more than once due to him? Remember that Apple (etc) have been troubled at many times through their history with him at the helm :) Gates also eventually left in part because he was doing more harm than good (and has tried to turn himself into a more reasonable person it seems). Compare that to the organization that MS is now under a leader who isn't an asshole?…

Suggesting the largest philanthropic donor in history (Bill Gates at 27 billion USD) is an asshole ('MS is now under a leader who isn't an asshole') seems like an oversimplification.

I don't have the time to find the comment now, but being the largest philanthropic donor does NOT infact make up for being an asshole or the amount of damage microsoft has done to the computing industry.

Am I downplaying his donations? Not at all. It's just that doing a good thing does not cancel out the bad.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#792

Post by Tankenstein »

This is actually great news. Shows that one of the most important leaders in tech is actually capable of introspection , admitting fault and changing their ways, even after many years, without a massive public scandal.

Massive kudos, Linus. I don't think this was easy.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#793

Post by [deleted] »

jjeaff wrote: post #552
hyperpallium wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people who are able to accomplish their goals by rallying others to their cause. Like Linus.

Is anyone really rallied to the cause by Linus himself? I think the product is the only real draw. With the exception of a select few that simply want to work with someone as high profile and legendary as Linus.

[deleted]

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#794

Post by jernfrost »

I think one has to be fair about what sort of asshole Linus is. He is not like Steve Jobs, Balmer and Gates who could be vindictive and get personal.

For Linus it is more about being far too blunt. But you can clearly see Linus himself being aware of it and having some humbleness about it. Jobs in contrast would never admit his bad behavior.

As a fellow Nordic (Norwegian) I feel a significant component of this is simply Nordic cultural trait. We are quite blunt. We value honesty and directness. However Finns I believe are farther out on that spectrum.

The second parts is that I think he has probably mild asperger traits. I have that, my wife and oldest son. That does not make you an asshole. I don’t talk like Linus but it can mean you often are not able to pick up other people’s emotional state.

Keep in mind this is very different from being a psychopath. They can pick up other people’s emotions but don’t care of they are hurting them. Somebody with asperger don’t want to intentionally hurt others but may do so accidentally by not reading the person properly. Somebody with Asperger is willing to admit they have a problem that needs fixing just like Linus.

A psychopath does not think he/she has a problem that needs fixing.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#795

Post by cs02rm0 »

supernovae wrote: post #686
JohnBooty wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly he has done far, far, far more good than bad. I don't think anybody feels otherwise. I would say he's something of a hero to me! He has certainly rallied many to his cause. As much good as he has done, could he do some things better? Linus certainly feels so. Interesting that so many here seem doubt Linus' own assertion.

Have you ever worked with brilliant assholes? It sucks the life out of you - and it really sucks when they get idolized and rewarded heavily. It creates a vicious cycle of absurdity - the one where people appease the anger to try and achieve some good not realizing how much the bad influences the culture of the movement/organization/group. No one is perfect, but the community for far to long treated an imperfect man…

Have you ever worked with brilliant assholes? It sucks the life out of you - and it really sucks when they get idolized and rewarded heavily.

I've worked with a few people I'd consider brilliant. But none whose accomplishments really compare to those of Linus. He's more or less a sample size of one as far as I can see in terms of building out such successful software on such a large community and without being inside a megacorp.

I've worked with many more people who feel the need to be involved, steer projects towards failures or dead ends, who seem to live by the CIA manual on field sabotage and have to be managed to not cause a net detrimental effect. Some of those were really nice people too.

I'm amazed at how he's built Linux without more clashes, but if he feels he can be a nicer guy about some of it and still do the job effectively, more power and credit to him.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#797

Post by DKnoll »

isatty2 wrote: post #791
DKnoll wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suggesting the largest philanthropic donor in history (Bill Gates at 27 billion USD) is an asshole ('MS is now under a leader who isn't an asshole') seems like an oversimplification.

I don't have the time to find the comment now, but being the largest philanthropic donor does NOT infact make up for being an asshole or the amount of damage microsoft has done to the computing industry. Am I downplaying his donations? Not at all. It's just that doing a good thing does not cancel out the bad.

Doing a good thing doesn't cancel out the bad, but I don't think it's fair to anonymously call people assholes on the Internet when they are actively trying, and succeeding, at doing good in the world. Especially when their sins are immaterial things like whatever damage you think MS did to the computer industry.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#798

Post by blihp »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #477
dragonsky67 wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it needs to be acknowledged that many people don't get subtle feedback. If you give me subtle feedback, either positive or negative, chances are I will miss it all together. I need feedback that is clear and obvious, what others could categorises as being blunt or abusive otherwise I will walk away scratching my head wondering if I've done well or otherwise. Reminds me of advise that was given to my Wife by a…

See, this is the piece that makes me assess this as an abusive thing to do: The key, I find, is to be extremely direct and brutal in one on ones. I have two special needs sons. I'm a former military wife. I tend to err on the side of being super, duper blunt and, no, my kids don't get "hints." But that doesn't mean I have to be ugly about it most of the time either. Real life example: When they were little, I would s…

I take brutal in this context to mean honesty, not cruelty. To me, 'very, very, very blunt' and 'extremely direct and brutal' mean the same thing.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#799

Post by chaosbolt000 »

The comments are too harsh, you can be a good person and an asshole, since when insults were this much of a problem, a few decades ago people would've just said he's a guy with an attitude, or hot blooded, etc... I prefer people like him to calm always smiling sociopaths who only say the right things and take actions that truly hurt people.

Re: Linus Torvalds apologizes for his behavior, takes time off

#800

Post by keithpeter »

It will be interesting to see what kind of tooling Torvalds ends up with. I suspect that bit may have been a joke but you could imagine a 'professional feedback generator'.

Time out might yield positive benefits. At some point (5 years? 10 years?) he will have to retire / take on a different role.

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