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EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

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Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#791

Post by AnssiH »

buboard wrote: post #227
antpls wrote: post #181

For the anecdote, Nils Torvalds, the father of Linus, is one of the many authors of this text law. I'm from EU, I had the time to look at the recent amendments about this law, in which they added precisions about the fair use of data, for non-profit and public research. They also precised that this law and the technical implementations should not go against already in-place freedom of speech rights. Hopefully, people…

Do you have a link to the text of the directive? i found this text from 2016: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Also , the major issue is not so much with the process of takedown itself, but with the "terror" it inspires which will lead to the end of the "meme culture" upon which internet media rely on. It's not so much about the number of take-downs , but about the number of people that…

Here is a PDF of the amendments adopted today: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...

The most controversial articles 11 and 13 are included in their entirety.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#792

Post by tomelders »

As bonkers as this may seem, I suspect it will fall flat on it's face the second it's put before a court.

For example, someone defends their right to use the title or quote from an article from some other news gathering organisation. Someone will need to convince a judge that it's OK for The Sunday Times, or Der Spiegel to do that, but it's not OK for Reddit or Hacker News to do that.

And eventually, someone will need to convince a court that it's OK for Charlie Booker to broadcast a Cassetteboy video mash up on the UK's Channel 4, but it's not OK for Cassetteboy to upload that same video to youtube.

It is true that the CJEU doesn't hold case law and precedent in the same high regard as other courts, but neither does it ignore them. The ECJ and CJEU serves as a check on government in the same way the courts do in most other countries. I think it is unfortunate that the EU parliament has approved this law. But I struggle to see how it will stand up in court. That said, it will take a very brave person or organisation with deep pockets and a steel will to challenge this law.

However, if this law is upheld in court, then I think we can consider the EU a failed experiment. So abhorrent is this legislation that I, an ardent "Remaniac", would rather see the EU fail and take my chances with whatever comes next, than let the EU stifle free speech and the free flow of information and ideas in this way.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#793

Post by wokwokwok »

anigbrowl wrote: post #780
0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #711

>However, those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. This is the most hilarious quote in the article. The only thing this will do is entrench massive players like Google and Facebook who already have these systems in place. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while ha…

Maybe it's time technologists stopped assuming they're the cleverest persons in the room and rectified their ignorance of law and economics before assuming they're in the right about everything. I'm not a fan of onerous copyright legislation but simply asserting that 'information wants to be free' is stating an opinion, not some scientific law. Hackers and developers are just as subject to the Dunning-Kreuger effect…

My my, its certainly easy to tell people off isn't it?

...but perhaps if instead you offered a compelling argument to the counter?

The EFF has laid out a lot of reasons this is problematic, and they are very familiar with the situation.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#794

Post by AnssiH »

antpls wrote: post #424
buboard wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a link to the text of the directive? i found this text from 2016: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Also , the major issue is not so much with the process of takedown itself, but with the "terror" it inspires which will lead to the end of the "meme culture" upon which internet media rely on. It's not so much about the number of take-downs , but about the number of people that…

Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think your link is the latest version. It says 2016 because the procedure started in 2016, the linked document itself has been updated with the following amendments : http://www.europarl.europa.eu/plenary/en/report-details.html... On a side note, there are a lot of information on several EU websites about procedure, steps, people, etc, for example : - http://www.europarl.…

It is not the latest version. Compare it to today's amendments: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//...

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#795

Post by ddingus »

0x5f3759df-i wrote: post #711

>However, those backing these provisions say the arguments above are the result of scaremongering by big US tech companies, eager to keep control of the web’s biggest platforms. This is the most hilarious quote in the article. The only thing this will do is entrench massive players like Google and Facebook who already have these systems in place. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while ha…

Maybe they do understand.

People communicating very freely has presented many challenges to those same politicians.

Forcing liability makes a choke point, and better control.

At least China is completely overt about these things. That is not a statement of support, quite the opposite. It is a statement as to how weasely politicians are about these things. They want a lot more control, and people want a greater check on authority.

I can't help but notice strong self interest factors in play here.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#796

Post by AnssiH »

antpls wrote: post #181

For the anecdote, Nils Torvalds, the father of Linus, is one of the many authors of this text law. I'm from EU, I had the time to look at the recent amendments about this law, in which they added precisions about the fair use of data, for non-profit and public research. They also precised that this law and the technical implementations should not go against already in-place freedom of speech rights. Hopefully, people…

> For smaller and not well-known streamers, it may be more difficult to obtain justice...

Currently, yes, but that is, as far as I understand it, something this directive actually makes better. Article 13(2b) requires "effective and expeditious complaints and redress mechanisms that are available to users in case the cooperation referred to in paragraph 2a leads to unjustified removals of their content. Any complaint filed under such mechanisms shall be processed without undue delay and be subject to human review".

Also, "Member States shall also ensure that users have access to an independent body for the resolution of disputes as well as to a court or another relevant judicial authority to assert the use of an exception or limitation to copyright rules".

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#797

Post by gnusci »

tomelders wrote: post #792

As bonkers as this may seem, I suspect it will fall flat on it's face the second it's put before a court. For example, someone defends their right to use the title or quote from an article from some other news gathering organisation. Someone will need to convince a judge that it's OK for The Sunday Times, or Der Spiegel to do that, but it's not OK for Reddit or Hacker News to do that. And eventually, someone will nee…

My 5c here. Maybe they just don't have much to do, so they need to justify their salaries, and they need to have some presence in the WWW to let us know that they are out there.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#798

Post by anigbrowl »

Nasrudith wrote: post #600
geezerjay wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This can have a chilling affect on content creation, and thus the dissemination of ideas. I'm not sure it's reasonable to conflate ripping off creators by enabling massive commercial use of unauthirized copies of their original content with actually creating something. > YouTube will have to create a filter that covers their liability I believe they already did that for some years now.

Here is an analogy - imagine we crack down on theft at the source by massive fines for receiving stolen property. Sounds good? Try to sell anything secondhand then. Nobody wants to engage in the secondhand market because of the massive liability. Sure you own it but can you prove it to their satisfaction? You could be lying and that is mo excuse on their part. You try to sell crafts you made yourself instead but nobo…

Except this isn't backed up by empirical evidence, in reality flea markets and used good stores are widespread despite the existence of laws against trafficking in stolen goods. Just because you can imagine a bad outcome doesn't mean it's inevitable or even probable.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#799

Post by corysama »

anigbrowl wrote: post #784
jules wrote: post #729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone could support this law while having any understanding of how the internet works. These are the same politicians that brought us the law that forces every website to ask EU visitors permission to store cookies with a big fat modal dialog, so I don't think you need to worry that people who any understanding of how the internet works supported this law. Imagine all the time wast…

Imagine all the time wasted on those modal dialogs and add up the total cost in human lives. GMAFB, nobody is dying because they're being asked to consent or refuse cookie tracking. If you are worried about that then why haven't I see you complaining about the modal dialogs and umpteen other other impositions inflicted upon users by marketing departments?

There are nearly 4 billion internet users. 1 billion seconds is 31.7 years. Clicking on those useless dialogs easily adds up to a whole human lifetime every day.

Re: EU approves internet copyright law, including ‘link tax’ and ‘upload filter’

#800

Post by majewsky »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #640
groestl wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at the provisions of GDPR, for example. Do you think a two-person startup is going to have the resources to deal with all of its provisions? GDPR is a bad example, because yes, that's definitely possible. And it should be, if that startup handles personal data.

But what kind of startup doesn't handle personal data? All companies have that in the form of customer and supplier account information needed for billing purposes -- especially if they're not in the advertising business.

Most of the rules in GDPR apply only to personally-identifiable information that is not strictly required for business operations. The law recognizes that, when you want to ship some goods to a customer, you will have to process and store their address, and no opt-in is needed because the customer explicitly gives that information to you.

Explicit opt-ins are only required when you record personally-identifiable information surreptitiously, or share these information with other parties.

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