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Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

josephg.com

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Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#791

Post by seangrogg »

mentos wrote: post #376
d--b wrote: post #196

Electron is just another proof that ease of programming matters. Node.js too was a terrible idea. Who in their right mind would write server-side javascript? It turns out: pretty much anyone who didn't want to have to screw around for hours before being able to respond to a simple http request. Similarly, it is way harder to write a desktop app than a browser app. DOM / CSS manipulation, however bad they are, are yea…

Yes to me the solution to the heavy ram/diskspace usage isn't to abandon Electron but to optimize it.

That would seem like the best possible outcome for everyone, really, but you're not going to get much karma on HN unless you're either showering JS with praise or vilifying it as cancer.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#792

Post by golergka »

pdimitar wrote: post #786
golergka wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate something that has no value for you? Why?

You not having value from Telegram means absolutely nothing and is not an argument. What's your point?

What value deviation from uniform UI has for me?

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#793

Post by pdimitar »

golergka wrote: post #792
pdimitar wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You not having value from Telegram means absolutely nothing and is not an argument. What's your point?

What value deviation from uniform UI has for me?

Is it hurting you in any objective way? That is the better question here. What objective value do you get from a 100% uniform UI? I can very easily orient myself between using my Win10 and macOS Telegram apps.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#794

Post by [deleted] »

mi100hael wrote: post #612
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, only a special kind of "developers" is afraid of learning languages. A language is, after all, means to use the frameworks. If you are an experienced developer, moving from a language to a language is a matter of hours to days, depending on paradigm changes. Learning frameworks takes much longer, obviously, but with the wealth of information available out there these days (Stack Overflow, message boards, blo…

The real irony is that OP's bio says > JavaScript Hacker at Slack meaning he works for a company that heavily leveraged an existing protocol, IRC, for which there are already a metric fuckton of native clients and libraries for every platform under the sun. Implementing their shitty web client was undoubtedly far more work than supporting a handful of native clients.

[deleted]

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#795

Post by alexforencich »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #56
geodel wrote: post #19

Very timely article. But I have been told to shut up and use Atom/VSCode/Slack like everyone else and upgrade hardware if software runs slow. I find memory/cpu efficient applications not just useful but respectful to users specially when upgrading hardware is not possible due to financial or policy reasons.

We're also in an era when the speed of laptop and desktop CPUs has essentially stalled. Put another way, if our apps hog more resources there aren't necessarily faster machines we can buy.

Yes, this is extremely important to remember. The days of "who cares if we use a few extra bytes of RAM or a few extra CPU cycles here and there as computers will be twice as fast and have twice as much memory this time next year" are long over. And with the huge push for mobile and slim, portable computers, power efficiency is paramount as users really care about battery life. Yes, sure you can get a more powerful laptop than your nice, sleek, portable macbook air, but it's going to weigh 5x as much and the battery life will suck, especially if you actually use that power. People want to be able to use their CPU and RAM to run multiple applications efficiently, not waste it on a few laggy memory and CPU hogs.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#796

Post by luord »

The other day I read a blog post that argued how "Fight for the users" should be a core tenet for every developer. I agree; and, unfortunately, the main undercurrent of the defense of electron, at least in this thread, is one of almost complete disregard for the users.

Yes, most of them probably won't notice the performance impact. Most of them also don't notice whether their applications are insecure or overstep their privacy boundaries. It doesn't mean we shouldn't care about security or should build hidden trackers into all the code we produce.

That aside, Electron is just an ugly idea in general (obligatory IMO). I wouldn't want to run an entire browser just to run my own apps, next to the actual browser.

And I say this as someone who works almost exclusively in web development and who likes javascript.

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#797

Post by shwouchk »

sha90 wrote: post #619
user5994461 wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been a LOOOOOONG time since I worked on a laptop where I experienced noticeable performance problems... Really??? Because personally, I keep having performance problems on all laptops I have. Don't try running on battery saving mode, seriously. I stop counting the 5+ years old laptops that have to be upgraded, they can't watch a youtube full HD video in good conditions. ---- Fun Anecdote: I had to trial an ent…

> I stop counting the 5+ years old laptops that have to be upgraded, 5+ years ago is that LOOOOOONG time that OP was talking about. It's also unfair to compare technical capabilities of old hardware for many reasons. I think the point was that, new hardware, _while its new_, is becoming more and more capable. Any new laptop today, even budget ones, can handle YouTube videos in HD. The problem is that HD today won't b…

'Where are the "Chrome is Flash for the desktop" posts?'

Ehhh, you're in one, I think?

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#798

Post by smitherfield »

d--b wrote: post #196

Electron is just another proof that ease of programming matters. Node.js too was a terrible idea. Who in their right mind would write server-side javascript? It turns out: pretty much anyone who didn't want to have to screw around for hours before being able to respond to a simple http request. Similarly, it is way harder to write a desktop app than a browser app. DOM / CSS manipulation, however bad they are, are yea…

> Node.js too was a terrible idea. Who in their right mind would write server-side javascript? It turns out: pretty much anyone who didn't want to have to screw around for hours before being able to respond to a simple http request.

Having learned Ruby on Rails before Node, I view Node as "screwing around for hours before being able to respond to a simple http request."

Re: Electron is flash for the desktop (2016)

#799

Post by catshirt »

drdaeman wrote: post #587
drdaeman wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Skype native? Except for the very old 4.x Linux version - which is native Qt - and comparably old Windows ones, I thought, all of the recent versions are webbrowser wrappers (one sort or another) with some occasional native widgets around that.

(Can't edit the post above) But, of course, Skype issues aren't because of their UI nativeness. Their UI layer is... well, tolerable. Heck, I'd be happy if all I'd have to complain about Skype would be a crappy UI. But I don't think UI implementation has to do anything about why we love it so much. I mean, missing calls and messages every other week, random desync between clients and all the usual rituals that every…

i think i was still overreacting to prove a point. everything you're saying is right.

my point is, even if i concede native is "better" or whatever, the difference should be negligible for most apps for all users (let alone "most" users).

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