Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

791–800 of 906 posts

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#791

Post by QML »

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

Honestly, as a moderate, I feel as if this country has turned into two divorced parents who are willing to sacrifice the future of their children just to get back at one another. At the moment, people seem to be voting for the candidates that's the biggest "fuck you" to other side, neglecting the fact that a country is best when the interests of all its citizens are put at heart.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#792

Post by pcvarmint »

sgift wrote: post #265
Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

> People start throwing link after link of facts and don't want to even reason about ideas. It's hopeless and I end up keeping my mouth shut. So, you take a contrarian view. People respond with facts. So, where's the problem? You don't like the facts? Don't want to hear them or what exactly?

People take "short circuits" when coming to conclusions based on "facts".

Instead of:

1. I value A more than B. 2. Facts show that X tends to cause A and Y tends to cause B. 3. Therefore I prefer X to Y.

They do:

1. The facts show that Y causes B. 2. Therefore, how can you be against Y? 3. By arguing against Y, you are ignoring the facts of B.

... which is frankly a non-sequitur.

Arguing against a conclusion or policy is not the same as ignoring facts.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#793

Post by hirsin »

Bartweiss wrote: post #468
gred wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I'm willing to listen ${them}, as long as they don't question ${sacred_cow}" is a key aspect of the unwelcoming behavior described by the interviewee. To use your example, I'd wager that most global warming skeptics (especially the ones that you'll meet in SV) have a more developed and nuanced perspective than "global warming is fake". Sure, we don't have infinite time or patience to fully understand and empathize w…

> "I'm willing to listen ${them}, as long as they don't question ${sacred_cow}" More broadly, this seems to be how most of politics (especially recent American politics) operates on either side. Anything is open to debate and discussion as long as it doesn't seriously threaten to make someone change their behavior. You can even persuade someone to change their views, as long as their new views can support the thing t…

> What would make you change your position on ${issue}

So, I gamed this out with myself, because it's a good idea. I had a couple that I can't find serious answers to -

* Gay marriage - you'd need to show me that gay marriage actively destroys society. Show me relics of a village or civilization that went under because it had permissive LGBT rights.

* Abortion - as with LGBT rights, you'd have to show me that a God exists that will send me to hell for supporting the above. I could compromise on certain things, but only to preserve the bulk of it.

I can't figure out a good-faith tipping point for either of these social issues for me (fiscal/geopolitical I can find plenty) - and accordingly I can't really have a well-intentioned debate about it as it would quickly boil down to "yes, we disagree on the sacredness of life/marriage". So, what then?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#794

Post by tylerwhipple »

Mithaldu wrote: post #672
tylerwhipple wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went from Salt Lake City to San Francisco as well. I have always been quite liberal on issues and it had never been a problem, but when discussing issues in SF I felt I had to be very careful with what I supported. I always felt my friendships/employment was threatened if I disagreed. I had a good friend/startup founder once say anyone who supported Trump deserved to be fired and blacklisted.

By supporting trump (and thus pence and gop) one implicitly agrees with people dying due to cuts in health services. (And yes, pence has already done health-related things whose only consequence were deaths.) Do you feel being fired and blacklisted is a worse consequence than suffered by people impacted by support of trump (and his people)?

I didn't vote for Trump, however I did have some positive things to say about a few things he supported. Overall I felt Hilary was the better choice, however expressing anything not negative about Trump caused serious contention.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#795

Post by quanticle »

Exofunctor wrote: post #587
justinsaccount wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized racism of anywhere in the US. The communities are small enough that racial classification isn't actually a useful heuristic, so people just use social connections and character instead. Second to that…

    Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) 
    and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can 
    absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized 
    racism of anywhere in the US.
First of all, I will note that none of those places are in the Deep South (e.g. Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, etc). I would claim that there are strong regional differences in racism in the US. While conservative rural areas in the West have a reputation for being pretty tolerant, that reputation does not hold for places that had a longstanding slaveholding tradition. Texas is somewhat of an exception to this, because of its rather unique history.

Secondly, are you yourself white? I only ask because I am not, and I have had the experience of going into a store in a rural, conservative area, hearing conversations stop and heads turn as everyone stopped to look at the different-looking person walking in.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#796

Post by hirsin »

rfrank wrote: post #665
orbitur wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought parent commenter was referring to generic Trump supporters being beaten. When someone thinks you don't deserve to live because of the color of your skin, you're well within your right to defend yourself against that idea. You shouldn't have to wait until they're knocking down your door.

> When someone thinks you don't deserve to live because of the color of your skin, you're well within your right to defend yourself against that idea. You shouldn't have to wait until they're knocking down your door. Replace color of your skin with political belief, and you've just made an argument for Trump supporters who live in places like Berkeley or San Jose to violently defend themselves from liberal rioting.

Find me a leftist actively making plans and pushing for the elimination of those with certain political beliefs, and I'll agree. Saying that people shouldn't be racist or oppose welfare != saying there should be a "peaceful ethnic cleansing", a la Spencer.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#797

Post by rfrank »

hirsin wrote: post #796
rfrank wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When someone thinks you don't deserve to live because of the color of your skin, you're well within your right to defend yourself against that idea. You shouldn't have to wait until they're knocking down your door. Replace color of your skin with political belief, and you've just made an argument for Trump supporters who live in places like Berkeley or San Jose to violently defend themselves from liberal rioting.

Find me a leftist actively making plans and pushing for the elimination of those with certain political beliefs, and I'll agree. Saying that people shouldn't be racist or oppose welfare != saying there should be a "peaceful ethnic cleansing", a la Spencer.

Antifa is the yin to the alt-right's yang. Both are jokes.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#798

Post by Mithaldu »

hkmurakami wrote: post #522
sgift wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the first things I've noticed when looking at political discussions. People (correctly) note the abuse of powers in others, but the moment they get power themselves they see no problem with (ab)using it to attack those who did it before. And then the power relations change again and it starts anew.

Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.

The frightening part about your post is that you might not even be trolling.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#799

Post by sgift »

Mithaldu wrote: post #798
hkmurakami wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely. The tactics used to shame Trump supporters, evangelicals, and the like are the exact same as the ones used to shame and invalidate people of color, women's rights, etc. In the past. It's disheartening, really.

The frightening part about your post is that you might not even be trolling.

Why is this frightening?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#800

Post by alexryan »

I’m very happy to see this. The moment that we stop shouting at each other and start to actually “listen” to each other is the moment when it becomes possible to find win-win solutions.

I would humbly suggest, however, that if you genuinely want to understand the mind of a Trump voter, you might try viewing the world from the perspective of people whose values are very different than yours.

Often when we offer value to others, we are completely oblivious to the fact their values are different than ours. We may, for example, with the best of intentions, offer a big juicy steak to a militant vegan.

We may be completely oblivious to the fact that the gesture will not produce the desired feeling of gratitude.

Similarly, try to understand why offering “universal basic income” to a Trump voter is many orders of magnitude worse than offering a steak to a vegan.

Why is this? Because accepting a hand-out is an affront to their honor. Many would rather die than accept handouts from the state. Because they value PRIDE far more than they value CONNECTION.

Observe that the most popular insult among the alt-right is “cuck”. Why is that? This betrays their deepest fear of the blue collar Trump voter: The fear that their wives will seek other men because they are no longer able to provide for their families because no woman wants to be with a man who cannot provide for her.

If you truly get that and empathize with the terror that they feel, everything becomes much more clear.

Post reply on HN