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New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

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Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#791

Post by Friedduck »

The people who disagree with the post are ignoring the argument because it may not apply to their specific circumstance. It is a real setback to those of us who rely on those keys (features, really) but more worryingly a design direction that offers a net decrease in usability.

All MacBooks already have a touch surface that currently performs the functions shown in the touch bar demo. While I can see the appeal of some scenarios where it accelerates what might otherwise require lengthy finger travel on the touchpad, that doesn't come anywhere close to offsetting the loss of the function keys.

Virtually all of the MacBooks we buy we set up with Parallels or Fusion, and the F keys are absolutely necessary for Windows functionality. Having to break concentration to look at where the keys are, or their state, is a profound productivity drag.

Doubt that I'm right? Use an iPad instead of your physical keyboard for a week and let us know the results.

On a sidebar this reminds me a lot of the move to touch screens in cars, and the resulting challenges. Touch surfaces are great but not the answer to everything.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#793

Post by ljones140 »

JoshMnem wrote: post #752
barleymash wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a vim user as well, and I'm actually shocked at how many users apparently still use the ESC key. I actually didn't know any regular vim users did that, because to me, it seems super inefficient. I don't say that as a put-down or anything like that. But if you use vim, I'd highly recommend remapping caps lock to Esc. I think you will get used to it within a day and will never go back.

I've tried ctrl-c, ctrl-[, and ESC. The one that stuck for me was ESC. The others usually don't work in other programs that use vim keybindings. Many people already map capslock to ctrl. You could map ctrl to ESC, but then it gets uncomfortable when switching computers, and it goes against 10+ years of muscle memory. I tried remapping capslock once, but it got too confusing when switching computers.

I am a developer who writes code while in tmux and vim. I have remapped my Caps Lock key so it's Ctrl when presses with another key and Escape when pressed on it's own.

I used this software to do this https://pqrs.org/osx/karabiner/

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#794

Post by sumanthvepa »

metafunctor wrote: post #238
ekianjo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're using vim and reaching for the escape key you are doing it wrong imho. So generations of Vim users are doing it wrong but you have the right answer?

The Vi editor was originally written on a terminal which had the Escape key positioned where the Tab key is on modern keyboards. So yes, rebinding Escape is the right answer if you heavily use it. The normal positioning for Escape is very inconvenient for touch typing. http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Avoid_the_escape_key

> The normal positioning for Escape is very inconvenient for touch typing.

But what if you're not a touch typist? I'm not, and I use the ESC key all the time when using vi/vim, So much so, that it is almost a mindless reflex. I have no choice but to adapt, I know, but my most likely response to this will be to use my Linux laptop more frequently. I still have to use the Mac for OS X and iPhone development, but for other server side stuff, I guess I have to switch to Linux.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#795

Post by SamUK96 »

wyager wrote: post #181
SamUK96 wrote: post #105

True developers used MacBooks? I was talking to a washed-up developer today who swears by them actually. Every single reason was totally bogus. It went something like this: Reason 1) "They come with native SSH capabilities" Me) "Uh, you can just get Putty for windows. It takes 20 seconds." Reason 2) "MacOS uses the PC's hardware more efficiently" Me) "Uh, it's because it's a very basic OS and has much less the deal w…

> True developers used MacBooks? Yes, three out of four tech companies I've been employed at and many more I've visited have been mac shops. Your made-up justifications don't even touch on the real reasons people prefer macs a lot of the time; it's UNIX, it's easy to use, and the hardware is high-quality. I think this might just be bait, but I do hear comments like this all the time off HN, so I'll give you the benef…

>the hardware is high-quality.

On the outside, maybe? The internal components of Apple products are notoriously planned and built for obsolescence and failure to keep you trendy folk giving them money, line after line (and then charge you to fix the failures!)

>it's UNIX

People would use Linux if the platform had the money to bribe software makers to support them. That's a "forced-reason", and not a positive design point of Apple itself.

>made-up justifications

Call everything you don't agree with "made-up"?

But seriously though, the reasons that devs use macs are mostly forced/non-reasons:

a) Earn a tonne of money and terrible value is not a problem for them

b) Need it since the thing they are developing needs to be tested on macs

c) Need UNIX and software that supports running on it.

d) etc.

After a while, you realise most of the reasons why any developer ever buys Apple starts with "need", which, hopefully, you should understand is a statement to the marketing, underhand, and monopolistic tactics of Apple (forcing you to "need" their products, rather than want them)

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#796

Post by legulere »

mladen5 wrote: post #781
accatyyc wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what if your IDE simply adds the debugger buttons to the touch strip instead? They could even have the correct icons and update state as you debug. Seems even better to me.

Main point for touch strip is changing icons/state. But that's absurd because not even my mother blind types. This is clearly another fancy thing that removes functionality.

Nobody types function keys blindly however

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#797

Post by easytiger »

sctb wrote: post #765
easytiger wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And have you ever tried to use a terminal (editor) on remote over a connection with high latency? Awful. You have no idea what you are talking about. Hilariously so.

Please don't attack other users like this on Hacker News.

I should of course have elaborated on his ludicrous assertion that a tty over ssh has worse latency than an rdp gui or such but his sentence was so self evidently nonsensical and his tone so needlessly aggressive and self assured that I didn't.

It was not an attack and I resent the framing of it as such.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#799

Post by marrs »

GrinningFool wrote: post #700
lucisferre wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I nearly exclusively use VIm and any other editor I use has a VIm mode plugin installed. I pretty much can't work productively in anything else. I can tell you that I haven't used Esc in ages. I have Caps Lock mapped to Ctrl (as it is a vastly more useful a key than Esc and Caps Lock is a much better position for it and is just as an extraneous as Esc is). I use Ctrl-C or Ctrl-[ to exit insert mode and it works just…

> I use Ctrl-C or Ctrl-[ to exit insert mode and it works just fine. In fact I understand that most experienced VIm users do this. That's pretty uncommon to imply it's generalizable. Most vim users, I feel comfortable in saying, actually use 'Esc', or a key mapped to the same. Speaking for myself, I can't see why I'd want to use two keys when one would do.

Well having to stretch your little finger all the way to the corner of the keyboard gets pretty annoying when you have to do it all the time, as you do with Vim. Much easier to remap another key close to the home row, and since caps-lock is so redundant, it is the obvious candidate.

So whether you map it directly to Esc or to a modifier, the parent's point stands: Vim users don't need the Esc key and are probably better off without it.

Re: New MacBook Pro Is Not a Laptop for Developers Anymore

#800

Post by marrs »

biot wrote: post #540
mozumder wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. Been using vi as my primary command-line editor for 25+ years, and have never used the ESC key, and just use the default setup. I don't even know what commands would use the ESC key?

Are you talking about the same editor? From a 1996 vi man page [0]: There are commands that switch you into input mode. There is only one key that takes you out of input mode, and that is the key. (Key names are written using less-than and greater-than signs, e.g. means the ``escape'' key, usually labeled ``esc'' on your terminal's keyboard.) If you're ever confused as to which mode you're in, keep entering the key u…

Map Caps-Lock to Esc?
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