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EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#781

Post by whywhywhywhy »

lII1lIlI11ll wrote: post #723
fidotron wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a strong case that much of the eastern bloc were tricked into joining, by the UK, in order to weaken the Franco-German efforts for ever closer union. This was even a joke in the UK at the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYqB0uTKlE

Could you elaborate regarding how exactly were eastern bloc countries "tricked" into joining by the UK? And what prevents them from leaving now that the tricksters from UK have long since left themselves?

> the tricksters from UK have long since left themselves?

This wasn’t intentional of the people who started the cogs turning, it was meant to be an empty gesture to get elected, no one expected it to actually pass.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#782

Post by bryanlarsen »

rsynnott wrote: post #776
bryanlarsen wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT many EU nations let stat holidays count towards the paid time off allowance. Ontario has 9 stat holidays. 10 paid days off guaranteed + 9 stat holidays is pretty close to the 20 required by Europe's paid time off guarantees.

Which countries are these? The UK used to have a derogation which allowed them to do this, and Malta has some weird thing, but otherwise I wasn't aware of any exceptions?

France too, but since they set their minimum at 30 + May 1st it basically comes out in the wash.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#783

Post by goobatrooba »

jcfrei wrote: post #114
cbg0 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The EU needs to be truly Federal to succeed economically. That might create uniform regulations with more uniform regulations and actually make Europe competitive. EU already has uniform regulations, what are you talking about? It's also the third largest economy in the world, as uncompetitive as it is.

No it does not. There's a lot of gold plating happening at the national level that goes beyond EU regulations. It's EU regulations + 27 national regulations in reality. The EU economies are still too different and the population too unwilling to have a truly US-style single market.

EU has two main legal instruments, regulations and directives. One applies directly, the other needs to be transposed into national law which indeed often ends with gold plating, but the tool is there to give uniform legislation- if all countries agree.

In addition there are plenty of technical standards which are agreed in expert committees, and these too apply directly. I'd expect Canada would join at least those technical processes and the two sides align technical standards over time.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#784

Post by thih9 »

ndiddy wrote: post #779
mandeepj wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are over 30 US military bases in EU member states As of today, with current affairs and the unpredictable element in chief, you may never know how long.

I agree that if EU states start kicking out the US military, that would be compelling evidence of an actual shift in alignment.

There is shift in alignment, even if the source is different. A popular headline from earlier this year was "US pulling 5000 troops from Germany"[1].

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-adm...

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#785

Post by llm_nerd »

throwaway283737 wrote: post #481

This is the same EU who once reduced the Canadian trade minister to (literal) tears, and made her denounce the (accurate) fact that, and I quote, "Europe is not capable of signing a trade deal". Notably, the EU has never ratified the Canada FTA and everyone's just sort of pretending it did for convenience's sake. Nice symbolism, but this is merely being used as leverage in Canada's negotiation with the US. "See, we h…

> This is the same EU who once reduced the Canadian trade minister to (literal) tears

It actually was "near tears", and this was because one region of Belgium was holding up what seemed so close. Eh. It isn't about them tearing up or changing or anything, or a tyrannical rapist king having a tantrum about some stupid bullshit, it was a negotiator frustrated that everything seemed to be held up by one small agricultural region. I don't know what you think this demonstrates.

> the EU has never ratified the Canada FTA and everyone's just sort of pretending it did for convenience's sake.

Greater than 98% of the provisions of CETA are in place since the original ratification. Which is why everyone "sorts of pretends", because for all intents it is in force in every meaningful way.

You either seem misinformed or deliberately misleading, but CETA has two phases. By far the most important, which the EU ratified fully. There is a very small component about an investor's court system that impinges on country-level domains exclusively, so it requires a separate ratification. But on the whole it is a minuscule part of the agreement, and is basically wholly unnecessary.

> Worth adding that Europe is far more protectionist than the US, so this is economically farcical

Ignoring the thing I just said, this is comical given literally everything over the past two years. Like, are you authoring your comment from a time loop or something, because in the current situation it is cartoonishly stupid.

Oh wait, you're a freshly created troll account just to drop this sort of "wisdom". ROFL.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#786

Post by foldr »

fidotron wrote: post #726
mejutoco wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cameron was trying to negotiate the UK into when complete inflexibility on the EU side triggered the Brexit referendum. You are assigning too much responsibility to the EU here and none to the other actors responsible for Brexit. It borders on propaganda, but I do not want to assume ill intent. And Cameron, didnt he say he would guide UK no matter the result and then resigned when Brexit won?

Brexit was obviously going to happen a good decade before the referendum, the tension was so blatant. This idea people were conned into voting leave is just utter nonsense - they'd been chomping at the bit for the opportunity for years. Now the UK has managed to ramp up the tension dramatically, but without some easy foreign political bogeyman to blame. It's not going to end well either, but it's not clear exactly wh…

>Brexit was obviously going to happen a good decade before the referendum

Come off it. Neither the referendum nor the referendum result were inevitabilities.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#787

Post by dghlsakjg »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #664
dghlsakjg wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada does not want to join the E.U. as a full member and that is not what is being offered. Canada very much is not “blustering” when it comes to Trump. A big majority of Canadians see sovereignty and less reliance on the US as a massive issue. Canada has embraced China in a way that was unthinkable 5 years ago in a deal intended to hedge against the US. The Canadian Conservative Party lost an election it was thoug…

I'll go back to my first comment above: What is an "associate member"? We don't know because it's a concept that does not exist but the very name suggests something stronger and tighter than anything that exists with non-members that have very close ties (Norway, Switzerland, Iceland). Hence I think it is safe to say that this is a lot of bluster, or ar least hyperbole, considering what Canada and the EU might really…

Bluster has a connotation of empty threats and loudness for the sake fo loudness.

Canada has been making real moves, and doing it quietly. In the past year non-US exports have grown by a record 11%. New trade and defense deals have been signed with more than 20 countries.

Whatever is going on in Ottawa, bluster is not the word for it.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#788

Post by jmye »

mitxela wrote: post #462
DaSHacka wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so he will likely win again this year. What do you mean by this?

I mean the Trump party will win in a landslide. Same reasons as last time. The opposition hasn't done anything to inspire more votes.

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Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#789

Post by SenHeng »

rmgiroux wrote: post #497
FabCH wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carney was asking for freedom of movement of goods, people and services, but without full monetary and legislative integration. So, easier to sell stuff, easier to buy stuff, free to just travel to/from Canada/EU and work there with no extra paperwork, free to buy and sell service from Canada to EU and vice versa. No Euro, no vote in EU, no ECJ, no payments into each others budget. Tighter integration than UK, not as…

Hey, Celine Dion won Eurovision already. We just need to get Switzerland to retroactively let her win stand for Canada :) If it gets a free trade and freedom of movement system in place, I don't think anyone is going to object in Canada much. Unless they try to open up fisheries, which would get them a bunch of Maritime (and Quebec?) objections...

Canada needs to send Bryan Adams.

Re: EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

#790

Post by jmye »

Rover222 wrote: post #655
neom wrote: post #75

No idea what this actually means, if it means easier trade, I'm all for anything that reduces our dependency on the yanks, as long as we don't need to be involved in their regulatory or legal regimes. The Americans are no longer our friends, Salut, mes amis Européens. :)

Do Canadians think "Yanks" is some sort of insult? I guess it's the white version of saying Gringo. Canada's economy is propped up by Alberta's energy production, which you my loose because they're so disgusted with the liberal politics. Anyway, good luck with revitalizing the economy by trading with a bloc of countries in economic decline.

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