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German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

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Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#781

Post by lazide »

MarsIronPI wrote: post #763
fhdkweig wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States, adult males have to sign up for the Selective Service for the same reason even though we haven't had conscription since the Vietnam War in the late 1970s(?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System

Can someone explain to me how the Selective Service is constitutional? I know Congress "shall have Power To... provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union", but that's only a call, not a legal requirement for anyone to answer the call. The argument seems untenable to me. Not to mention that it's a gross violation of individual freedom, and that if you can't get people to fight for their cou…

‘The constitution is not a suicide pact’ [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Constitution_is_not_a_suic...].

It’s the same reason there is a different legal system in the military than for everyone else.

Sometimes, you need to round up all the men and start killing folks - or everyone else dies. Such is life. Making it easy to find them is a basic operational best practice.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#782

Post by looshch »

ceejayoz wrote: post #759
looshch wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that argument is uninformed, check the birth rate in ukraine also check who are these refugees abroad: mostly women and children. How many will return? No one knows. Also what’s the incentive for women to return knowing there are far less options to marry? who will be working hard jobs where men are prevalent? what about the current generation? Who will be rebuilding the country from ruins? I’ve never seen women work…

> that argument is uninformed, check the birth rate in ukraine This has long been the argument for a male-only draft. One woman can make 1-2 babies every 9 months on average. It is difficult and expensive to speed that up; you can implant quadruplets and induce labor at six months, but that introduces all sorts of other problems. Sperm is much easier to obtain. > who will be working hard jobs where men are prevalent?…

> This has long been the argument for a male-only draft. One woman can make 1-2 babies every 9 months on average. It is difficult and expensive to speed that up; you can implant quadruplets and induce labor at six months, but that introduces all sorts of other problems. Sperm is much easier to obtain.

this argument is detached from ukrainian realities. Can ≠ will. Also have you checked the birth rate? Do you expect it to grow in a post-war context?

> Women, if too many men die in the war

so who will then raise these 1-2 babies every 9 months on average? If women need to replace men in the workforce, first they need to go through education and training. Along with having children, it’s incredibly hard to accomplish

> Women entered the workforce in large numbers for the first time. Plenty of precedent for this sort of shift

in the same sentence you say ‘for the first time’ and then ‘Plenty of precedent’. You either have no idea what ‘plenty’ means or you contradict yourself

the states weren’t ruined like europe was. The large numbers you are talking about are only large compared to normal historical numbers and female population percentage

also you completely ignore the cultural context, ukraine is not the states. The story of your country, which seems the only one you know, isn‘t as relevant as, for example, the history of ussr. We didn’t have a boomer generation. There are way too many differences for me to continue, so surely you are uneducated on the ussr history

> yelling at others.

yelling? Not a single exclamation point but still yelling? You have a rich imagination for sure

edit: formatting

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#783

Post by ceejayoz »

looshch wrote: post #782
ceejayoz wrote: post #759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that argument is uninformed, check the birth rate in ukraine This has long been the argument for a male-only draft. One woman can make 1-2 babies every 9 months on average. It is difficult and expensive to speed that up; you can implant quadruplets and induce labor at six months, but that introduces all sorts of other problems. Sperm is much easier to obtain. > who will be working hard jobs where men are prevalent?…

> This has long been the argument for a male-only draft. One woman can make 1-2 babies every 9 months on average. It is difficult and expensive to speed that up; you can implant quadruplets and induce labor at six months, but that introduces all sorts of other problems. Sperm is much easier to obtain. this argument is detached from ukrainian realities. Can ≠ will. Also have you checked the birth rate? Do you expect i…

> Also have you checked the birth rate? Do you expect it to grow in a post-war context?

Yes, birth rates tend to go up when wars end.

> in the same sentence you say ‘for the first time’ and then ‘Plenty of precedent’. You either have no idea what ‘plenty’ means or you contradict yourself

This is baffling.

Women entering the workforce in the 1940s due to the war is the precedent. It happened throughout the developed world. We are now eighty years past that demonstration.

> The story of your country, which seems the only one you know, isn‘t as relevant as, for example, the history of ussr. We didn’t have a boomer generation.

There was indeed a birth rate spike in the 1940s in Russia.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1038013/crude-birth-rate...

Unfortunately… Stalin.

Side note: I have dual citizenship, so I’m not sure which one of them is “the only one” I know.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#785

Post by einpoklum »

grumbelbart wrote: post #534
einpoklum wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fair enough, but if I were German - I don't really think I would asylum anywhere on the basis of Germany maybe intending to conscript me in the future.

I'm reasonably sure Russia would take you.

I rather doubt it, but - can you back that up by some examples at least?

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#786

Post by machomaster »

samus wrote: post #586
machomaster wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should men sacrifice and die for nothing, by not getting anything in return, not even a simple appreciation? Why should only men die when things get tough? I also would much rather see other unknown women die, than to send myself or my son to die for them. Women need to pull their weight. And since they aren't doing that from the evolutional POV, neither in practice (birth crisis) nor in theory (not like giving b…

The right reaction about bad things happening to a percentage of the population is to get rid of it if at all possible, not making everybody suffer from it. If you don't expect males to voluntarily sacrifice and die for the country, why would you expect women to suffer nine months of body horror (provocatively stated) and expend multiple years of full-time care to raise children? > And since they aren't doing that fr…

> The right reaction about bad things happening to a percentage of the population is to get rid of it if at all possible, not making everybody suffer from it.

This is not an argument, neither from theoretical nor practical point of view. This is akin to saying "Yeah, you want a universal health care for everyone, but I want everybody to be so rich that they can buy any insurance and bear any sudden health-costs". Not an argument, is it.

The reality is the way it is. Wars are always going to be fought and no amount of toxic peace wishing will change that.

If anything, adding women to the equation would:

1. make the force stronger. Therefore, a higher probability of not being attacked, and a higher probability of dominating the enemy (thus decreasing the total amount of victims).

2. make the political decisions to start wars much harder (in a good way).

This is exactly the reason why I am against the current American fight-for-money military and am for compulsory army service (like Finland), and for both sexes at that.

> If you don't expect males to voluntarily sacrifice and die for the country, why would you expect women to suffer nine months of body horror (provocatively stated) and expend multiple years of full-time care to raise children?

That's my point exactly. If women are not doing their evolutionary job, why should men? There can only be 2 possible solutions:

1. no sex has any sex-specific obligations (be it giving birth or going to war)

2. or impose similar sex-specific obligations to both sexes.

Men already contribute to society by being in the work force (and do a much more important foundational work than women), and it is unfair to impose additional unilateral sexist obligations on only one sex.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#787

Post by machomaster »

AlexeyBelov wrote: post #694
machomaster wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should men sacrifice and die for nothing, by not getting anything in return, not even a simple appreciation? Why should only men die when things get tough? I also would much rather see other unknown women die, than to send myself or my son to die for them. Women need to pull their weight. And since they aren't doing that from the evolutional POV, neither in practice (birth crisis) nor in theory (not like giving b…

> What not to love about this equality! Are you really for equality? Did you support women in this for the last couple of decades? Please be honest.

I am against the hypocrisy and want equality between sexes (they don't have to be the same for both sexes, but if one has more obligations, they should be appropriately compensated by additional rights/privileges).

My morals are not that hard to understand.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#788

Post by machomaster »

salawat wrote: post #737
machomaster wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should men sacrifice and die for nothing, by not getting anything in return, not even a simple appreciation? Why should only men die when things get tough? I also would much rather see other unknown women die, than to send myself or my son to die for them. Women need to pull their weight. And since they aren't doing that from the evolutional POV, neither in practice (birth crisis) nor in theory (not like giving b…

[flagged]

> Because a bunch of pissed off men is destabilizing, and what has worked in the past is sending them off to conquer/die under some glory laced pretense.

Such was the way in the old times. At the same time when women were taking their own feminine role and were giving birth.

But this does not apply anymore. Check the population pyramids for various countries. Having a lot of young men that need their energy to be put somewhere is not a problem in modern Western societies.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#789

Post by 47282847 »

dogemaster2026 wrote: post #774
pfannkuchen wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the analogy, if you are financially supporting guy A who is harassing guy B and his family constantly over years, and as a kicker guy A acts like he’s done nothing wrong, it is human nature for guy B to be pissed not only at guy A but also at YOU who financially supports guy A even while you know what he is doing. If you stop financially supporting guy A and sincerely apologize to guy B, and guy B continues to be…

Of course I am going to support Guy A because HE IS MY FRIEND or FAMILY. But the fact remains your strategy will only lead to your death and your family’s. Which it would be good for your family to know.

Of course you are free to support abusive behavior but especially with friends and family it would probably be useful for your own sake not to do so, and it is factually correct to view (and treat) you as enabler if you continue to do so despite knowing about the abuse.

Re: German men 18-45 need military permit for extended stays abroad

#790

Post by guerrilla »

MarsIronPI wrote: post #765
guerrilla wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kurds* yes and Sweden as well. I agree, it's not like people are running around swinging broadswords, maces and war axes anymore. Anyone without a disability can run and pull a trigger or do all those technical jobs.

Technical jobs yes. Infantry still requires a lot of physical strength. I'd welcome anyone who has that strength to be in the infantry, but anyone who can't, male or female, should not be in the infantry, or any job that might require dragging heavy people or heavy equipment.

As it should be.
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