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Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

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Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#781

Post by alex43578 »

rendaw wrote: post #756
alex43578 wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that’s not unique to Microsoft. It’s a fundamental tug of war between the pushback from consumers and the worst ideas and misaligned incentives in an organization MacOS has had the same ping-pong between good and bad releases, with the latest being particularly poor. Same with video games: one patch brings great fixes, the next introduces absurd cosmetics or a P2W mechanic.

When was the last time Linux pingponged between quality and trash?

For consumers, it's neither been quality nor trash. They just don't think about it.

I think this tension arises from the commercialization of a consumer product. If consumers and product managers aren't pushing the product in all these different directions, there aren't issues. "Pro" software doesn't face these issues either - Resolve, Photoshop, SolidWorks, Excel; but consumer-oriented spinoffs do. Apple's attempt to consumerize FinalCut was poorly received at launch.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#782

Post by wtetzner »

pjmlp wrote: post #686
wtetzner wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of which run better on Linux than Windows.

They might for whatever reason, however without Windows they would not have existed in first place.

I'm not sure I understand what your point is...

Without Windows they probably would have been written for whatever else was most popular instead.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#783

Post by wtetzner »

pjmlp wrote: post #684
wtetzner wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it came pre-installed I don't see what the difference would be. Many people don't know how to do anything other than launch certain applications on Windows either.

Except that it is a reality that is yet to happen in most countries. Most people also don't buy laptops from some online store that only HN readers know about.

Right, but the whole point of this thread is that the advantage Windows has is that it comes pre-installed.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#784

Post by raxxorraxor »

Macha wrote: post #7

It’s quite common for companies to work their way up to the line of the most user hostile version of their product that users will tolerate. Especially with software where they can just go flip a switch and turn off whatever feature did cross the line but keep everything they gained by inching up to the line, which seems to inevitably result in things like the condition of windows 11. I think the only way this gets b…

That is power the user loses if he chooses SaaS for the most part. An OS is still a different case, but that part is covered with restrictive update policies.

I do believe that Microsoft does bleed users though. This is an effect that isn't easily observed, but users tend to follow developers at some point when the software repertoire begins to get more attractive on other operating systems. The industry still employs a lot of native Windows apps, but more and more get replaced through alternatives and here Windows will be less relevant at some point as well.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#785

Post by j_w »

hnlmorg wrote: post #675
j_w wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody "needs" a TV then they might "need" some hobbies. A disturbing proportion of my family spend more than half of their free time watching television (typically while doom scrolling tiktok). They don't "need" TVs - they need to find interests.

What people don’t need is someone dictating to them how they should relax after work. Besides, it’s not like TVs are the only industry where consumer choice is an illusion. You see the same problem in a lot of sports (I used to fence and there was a great deal of pressure to buy equipment from one specific manufacturer which charged literally 4x the price for their gear). And it’s not just hobbies either. I need a ca…

Replying to this comment since clearly the point is misunderstood.

The core part of what I wrote was "need." If you believe you "need" as in "can't go without" a TV, in this example, then you probably should consider whether or not you may be addicted to consuming television.

Do this as an exercise: Which of these statements indicates that somebody may have a a problem?

- I need a cigarette

- I need a beer

- I need a TV

- I need to eat

- I need some water

- I need to relax

The last three are clearly real needs. The first two are addictive. TV isn't a literal need, so if you find yourself NEEDING it, you may have a problem.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#786

Post by j_w »

acheron wrote: post #668
j_w wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody "needs" a TV then they might "need" some hobbies. A disturbing proportion of my family spend more than half of their free time watching television (typically while doom scrolling tiktok). They don't "need" TVs - they need to find interests.

Evergreen https://theonion.com/area-man-constantly-mentioning-he-doesn...

I have a TV though.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#787

Post by j_w »

Cpoll wrote: post #662
j_w wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If somebody "needs" a TV then they might "need" some hobbies. A disturbing proportion of my family spend more than half of their free time watching television (typically while doom scrolling tiktok). They don't "need" TVs - they need to find interests.

Sure, but you're just choosing hobbies for people. TVs are just one example here. If your hobby is 3D printing, you might've gotten screwed by Autodesk's subscription changes.

TV can be a hobby, but hobbies typically have actual engagement from the hobbyist. There are a lot of people whom watching television/movies is a real hobby, and for those people you can tell that's the case.

In my experience for most people it's strictly a time wasting/filling/background noise activity. If you are spending a considerable amount of time watching television to time waste then you probably should try and find more fulfilling activities. This is not prescriptive of what those would be.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#788

Post by j_w »

Eisenstein wrote: post #672
j_w wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've dropped many things in the past because of issues with the company/service. Amazon Prime, every single streaming service, I've been car free for over 3 years, and there are more. Are there some things I would struggle with if suddenly there were issues? Sure. I had to significantly increase my internet spend because of the (much) cheaper option going to complete shit. I require the internet for my career but unl…

I think you underestimate the meaning of the word 'inconvenience'. Hot water is a convenience. My point is that your list is one list which you are making, but someone else could look at your life and make a different list. Your argument only goes so far you can extend into your own life. If you really cared about something's place in your life, you wouldn't classify it as a convenience, so you are conveniently apply…

Your original reply was:

> Please make a list of things you don't need so that in case of any issues with the company or system that allows access to them you will know to just stop using them.

If you didn't expect me to be introspective to MYSELF then why even bother asking? Of course my list is personal.

While it is personal, it also can apply to others. The reality is that most people are completely unwilling to inconvenience themselves.

Go without hot water? Okay, sure. I take cold showers, they are better for your skin. I wash my clothes with cold water. The only thing I use hot water for is dishes. I think that might be a bit weird, but I think dish soap is anti bacterial so it's probably not an issue? Now you can reply to this saying: "well YOU can do that but other people will feel differently." No shit. But most of the world goes without hot water so who cares.

> If you really cared about something's place in your life, you wouldn't classify it as a convenience, so you are conveniently applying your own classifications to other people's lives, which you don't have a right to do.

Most people don't actually care about TV in their life - they just have never thought for a minute to consider the reality of not having one.

> This is why we have democratic institutions and authority -- to make these limits about what is tolerable and intolerable -- not what people's conveniences are.

Not sure how this is relevant. I'm all for consumer protection. But the most apt way to protect yourself is to vote: first for politicians, and then with your wallet.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#789

Post by butlike »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #713
butlike wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how to better explain this, but as I get older I find I just have less energy to address all the things. My worldview gets larger and my energy levels become less and eventually I need to just 'stop' progressing in a certain activity. It could be re-learning the TV's remote control like my grandparents, or it could be re-learning how to drive with an EV touchscreen on modern cars, or it could be re-learn…

Sure, if you ignore all the time you're wasting on the status quo. You are still using energy on all the problems of the existing system. For a remote or a car there is no benefit to changing. For Windows there is.

I feel like that sentiment is really in the eyes of the beholder. You could argue as long as Windows still accepts and runs .exes, I'm good to go with gaming. But, that excludes all of the benefits of changing.

Idk, it's more of a philosophical perspective at this point. I see where you're coming from.

Re: Microsoft's "fix" for Windows 11

#790

Post by joe_mamba »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #765
joe_mamba wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chat software is absurdly expensive. Define absurdly expensive here. I can probably guarantee that for small to medium sized business paying Slack or Microsoft for chat software is miles cheaper than self hosting it yourself. My Google-Fu says Slack costs $18.00 /user/mo for their Business+ subscription plan. That's still relative peanuts compared to the yearly salary, let's say 60k/year, of developer you hire to se…

You do not need anywhere need a full time employee to spin up a Matrix instance. You need 1 of the IT people you're paying already to do a couple of hours of allocating a server, running it, and setting up permissions.

>You need 1 of the IT people you're paying already to do a couple of hours of allocating a server, running it, and setting up permissions.

We did that at my previous job during covid because we also though maintenance would only be a couple of hours of effort. It didn't work out that easy. It became a full time job so it was scrapped. People underestimate the amount of effort required maintaining on-prem infra across an org to match what cloud hypersacler providers offer.

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